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[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person..." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election..." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\"." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples.", ">\n\nRules for thee but not for me" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples.", ">\n\nRules for thee but not for me", ">\n\nWhen it was Trump it was the #1 trending post in like 3 hours on this sub while with biden… hahaha I love reddit" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples.", ">\n\nRules for thee but not for me", ">\n\nWhen it was Trump it was the #1 trending post in like 3 hours on this sub while with biden… hahaha I love reddit", ">\n\nDemocrats and Republicans, two sides of the same shit coin. We can talk about why this isn’t as bad as trumps but at the end it’s all justifications. We need some fresh politicians.\nEdit: Let me clarify, I do think trumps handling of his situation was way worse, ethically and legally. I was talking more about the root of the issue of having classified documents where they shouldn’t be and the two party system as a whole. \nSupport ranked choice voting!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples.", ">\n\nRules for thee but not for me", ">\n\nWhen it was Trump it was the #1 trending post in like 3 hours on this sub while with biden… hahaha I love reddit", ">\n\nDemocrats and Republicans, two sides of the same shit coin. We can talk about why this isn’t as bad as trumps but at the end it’s all justifications. We need some fresh politicians.\nEdit: Let me clarify, I do think trumps handling of his situation was way worse, ethically and legally. I was talking more about the root of the issue of having classified documents where they shouldn’t be and the two party system as a whole. \nSupport ranked choice voting!", ">\n\nThey are different lmao" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively.", ">\n\n\"not seeing that\"\n*links a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months*\nAre you intentionally blind or?", ">\n\n\n\"not seeing that\"\nlinks a graph showing his approval rating is, and has been below 50% for months\nAre you intentionally blind or?\n\n??? The other commenter said: \n\nhe just hit 50% approval this week.\n\nAs in, his approval rating just climbed to/hit 50%.", ">\n\nWhen idiot 1 does it, it's horrible and he should be prosecuted immediately.\nWhen idiot 2 does it, well, you see it's not exactly the same..\nPunish both idiots for mishandling classified documents the same way you would a regular person...", ">\n\nI’m very upset with Biden. People can keep saying it’s “different” from trump but the vast majority of the population won’t see it that way. Either having classified materials is illegal or it isn’t. People won’t care about the intricacies.", ">\n\nIf the American can't develop a more nuanced view than \"it is or it isn't\" we are all fucked anyways, so this story doesn't matter one bit already sliding down the hill. Now I don't really believe that they can't, and belive that the factual parts will be explored and judged accordingly whether procedure and laws were followed or not.", ">\n\nIf it were you, you'd either be in jail or not. So yes it either Is or isn't illegal there's no in between for a regular non elite", ">\n\nIllegal is Illegal. Wrong is wrong. Doesn’t matter the Party of the person that does it. Doesn’t matter how many other Presidents have done it.\nCountry over Party.", ">\n\nyou should read the pertinent laws then if you really think the law matters. It seem like you want some standard other than the legal standard applied here since you don't think knowledge or intent matter.", ">\n\nIt seems unlikely that Biden slipped on a banana peel and accidentally stuck classified documents in his garage.", ">\n\nLegal experts say that it is not uncommon for some people who have security clearances to mishandle classified documents, or to inadvertently keep material that is restricted after leaving government service. The criteria for prosecuting people who mishandle classified documents include proving that the person deliberately flouted rules for how to secure the materials.", ">\n\nAccording to CNN, they were found in his garage", ">\n\nHow exactly does one end up with a top secret document mixed in with their personal files at home? Is there just no system in place to safeguard this information? I think everyone that has ever had clearance needs to start going through their files. Who knows what will turn up. This is just classic SNAFU.", ">\n\nWhat the F is going on in our government that they can’t keep track of classified documents! If they are so important shouldn’t they be checked out of a secure central holding area. That way someone would know who had what and if it got returned or not. This is an embarrassment to our nation! FIX IT!", ">\n\nHe will probably get a slap on the wrist", ">\n\nJust like when documents were found with trump, nothing will happen except being asked to return them. It's a non-issue. Issues will only arise if, like trump, he refuses to give them all back.", ">\n\nHe is cooperating with the investigation", ">\n\nThat, ladies and gentlemen, is how you own up to a mistake. Good on you Biden for owning it and doing the right thing. \nHarmless mistakes are ok as long as they’re owned and learned from. We need to remember that. \nIf he lied about not having them, then delivered only a fraction of them, then lied again, then said they were planted, and then said he declassified them… that’s now owning up to it…that’s just lying about it a lot… that’s not cool and should be shamed and punished", ">\n\nGot to say, launching stones from a glass castle is becoming a proud American tradition.", ">\n\nall of the media approved biden criticism comes from a right wing view. I wish we had a media that reported accurately on bidens right wing immigration policy, or the ending of the CTC. instead we have a media that only criticizes the president when it’s a conservative argument (Afghanistan/national security/inflation) instead of his true weak points (immigration/age/police funding)", ">\n\nLeave it to Biden to fuck this up. \nHonestly, why isn't there a NARA storage facility for all documents of the outgoing administration and they go over everything with a fine-tooth comb before allowing the ex-Pres/ VP to possess docs?", ">\n\nThat is essentially what they do, but with the enormous amount of documents created during an administration some items are missed. \nAs it has been reported, NARA didn't even know these documents were missing/not turned over. They surely need some additional oversight or support but of course that comes at a cost which will be deemed unnecessary for sure.", ">\n\nI am seeing the media desperately try to wave this whole situation away as being totally above board, and it's not. I'm a liberal Democrat but I think to be ethically consistent, we need to be willing to admit this is wrongdoing on biden's part. \nI had read that some of these documents might have something to do with Ukraine. I dont think Biden is nearly as corrupt as trump, not by a long shot, but I mean, I do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption. \nIf biden has documents related to those investigations or that might hide corruption, that is a big fucking deal.\nI dont care of there is an R or a D next to an elected official's name, if the president is doing dirty shit, I want to know about it. \nRepublicans were crying so hard when trump was being impeached about how this is going to set a precedent for all future presidents, and to that I say--good! We should have electron microscopes up the asses of all our elected officials, regardless of party. \nI am trying to be conscious of not falling victim to biases by dismissing wrongdoing by \"my side,\" while excoriating the \"other side\" for the same behavior. Part of me wants to dismiss all this about biden, that is my emotional response, but ethically and rationally, we need to be just as critical and just as intolerant of corruption from our own team and not just the other team.", ">\n\n\nI do have to admit that hunter having a board seat on a Ukrainian energy company when he really had no qualifications to be on said board stinks of corruption.\n\nThat's just plain nepotism. If nepotism is corruption, there's FAR more corruption than the average American realizes.", ">\n\nNepotism is a classic form of corruption and the United States is rife with it. The worst example is recent years was Trump's immediate family being appointed to high office in the White House during his term. I still don't understand why people weren't thrown in jail for that.", ">\n\nObviously not limited to politics either. About 1/3 of S&P 500 companies are run by a member of the founding family. What an extraordinary coincidence that the person most suited to run a multi-billion dollar company JUST HAPPENS to be related to the founder!\nThe thing the stat above doesn't even touch upon is how many CEO's kids end up officers at OTHER Fortune 500 companies. The best thing you can do to become a corporate executive in America is to be related to a corporate executive.\nOf course, the same thing applies crossing from politics to business and business to politics. My name is irrelevant in executive circles. Hunter Biden's obviously was not. Same for the Bush kids, and the Trump kids, and the Kennedy kids, etc. To be entirely fair, however, I doubt I'd turn down a board position if offered and demand that I work my way up from the mail room regardless of who my parents are.", ">\n\nCan't wait until someone tells the GOP they can't indict a sitting President.", ">\n\nInvestigate and charge him", ">\n\nI saw Biden on 60 min saying our grossly irresponsible it was for Pres Trump to have possession of classified docs at his personal residence. I wonder what he thinks now??", ">\n\nProbably the same.\nWhich is why he directed his staff and lawyers to search for them. It would be irresponsible to not, wouldn't it?", ">\n\nDespite the mistake that was made, it’s being handled correctly now, and that has to count for something", ">\n\nWhile this is disturbing, I find the timing of it fishy and too convenient….just as the circles are closing in on Trump.", ">\n\nYeah they should've released the information on Nov 4th when it was first discovered, or maybe that was worse timing for the election...", ">\n\nThat’s not where I was going with it..\nHe lost fair and square…get over it", ">\n\nWhat? That's November 4th of 2022, right before the mid terms, not the president elections.", ">\n\nListening to him stumble and stammer through that press conference was so annoying. He's 81, time to retire, a long long time ago.", ">\n\nDon’t worry everyone, the garage was locked. Nothing to see here.", ">\n\nIt's (D)ifferent", ">\n\nIt's different because Biden did a sweep of his own property to find them and willingly handed them over. Trump was specifically hiding them and needed to be raided to get them back.\nIf you think these 2 situations are the same, I have a bridge to sell you.", ">\n\nYou're right, Biden illegally hid them for longer and as VP had no power to declassify. Refreshing to have you admit that", ">\n\nIn today's episode of: Rules for Thee and Not for Mee", ">\n\nSo Biden's new excuse is they were at his library? So the new batch discovered in the garage at his house, he's trying to say that's his office? Doesn't matter he couldn't have them legally in any instance, only a president can declassify documents, BIDEN WAS A VICE PRESIDENT WHEN HE TOOK. Have these new ones been in that garage the entire time?", ">\n\nExactly. I don’t care if it was one document or 10,000. He NEVER should have had them. At all.", ">\n\nIt's a good thing he told us he had them and turned them over. Could you imagine if he lied about having them and the FBI raided his house?", ">\n\nI can't imagine a president ever doing that. That would be crazy!", ">\n\nI got ten bucks on long odds: this is a ploy to ensure public outcry is about equal treatment, Biden steps down from the office as “consequence”, paving the way for equal expectation of punishment for Trump, Kamala is president. All because Biden has brain cancer. \nThat’s my guess. \nIt’s probably insane, therefore true.", ">\n\nEh. Even if Biden stepped down it’s not like anyone in the GQP would come to their senses and acknowledge Trump is a giant turd. All it would do is weaken the Democrats.", ">\n\nThe documents were planted by the shit show on the right!", ">\n\nYou have hitting on your bong too much.", ">\n\nAccording to NBC also in his garage", ">\n\nI hope he runs in 2024 hahaha", ">\n\nWhy is Garland already appointing a special counsel for Biden? Didn’t Trump have a long grace period to turn over documents and no special counsel was looking to be appointed for Trump until the documents weren’t turned over and lied about it. This double standard stinks!", ">\n\nIt was his birth certificate! It's considered a historical document because it's written on squirrel hide and signed by Daniel Boone.", ">\n\nI get that these two are 80 years old .... but it's 2023. Why are we still using printed documents? Lock that shit so the reader has to authenticate, authorization is linked to access level at the time of the request and a geo-located time stamp is entered into the log. It's a hell of a lost easier to track down a hardened laptop/tablet than it is to track printed documents.", ">\n\nIts not a good look for Biden, especially after Trump did the same, but i assume he has some reason for it.\nEither way, if Biden is being sketchy with this he should be held accountable.\n...i bet r/conservatives are saying that this sub \"went after Trump but crickets for Brandon\"\nNo, he should get this looked into. But if theyre okay with Trump doing it, they shouldnt have a problem with Biden doing the same.", ">\n\nBiden did the same thing when he wasn't in office...only he didn't have the authority to declassify them as only a president does, making it a non issue for a president but a huge issue for a former VP.", ">\n\nA president can't just state something is declassified and then it is. It actually has to be declassified. \nOtherwise biden could just say \"the stuff in my possession is now declassified since I am president and can do that\".", ">\n\nThis is such a non-story. Joe just forgot a few classified documents here and some others there. No issue at all! In fact I think it shows what a hard worker he is. Taking all this extra work home and to his lawyer's office and to his sons office and overseas on while on business trips. Proves he willing to go the extra mile, study up on all the classified issues even when he was in other meetings or was off the clock. It really is a shame that all these corruption allegations get lobbed his way!", ">\n\nReally OP? Yet another karma farming bot?", ">\n\njesus christ what about trump? what the fuck", ">\n\nYup. Criminal intent or not (there is not) this is bad and could not happen at a worse time. Biden may have just cost his chances for 2024. The electorate is too ignorant to learn the differences. Gavin 2024.", ">\n\nTinfoil hat time: Biden and the Dems are releasing this stuff now, on purpose. They want to keep Trump in the news and in the 2024 Presidential race since he's been harming the GOP's chances. This gives the right-wing press a reason to start supporting Trump again.\nMeanwhile, from a legal perspective, Trump faces liability due to his proven intent whereas Biden can be excused for cooperating and things just being an accident.", ">\n\nYeah, this is possible, but I think it's more plausible that the idiocy and decadence of the powerful/elite has reached to highs that are completely incompatible to the everyday life of the vast majority of people. Sure it's easy to refute this point as well, but hey, I admit that might be a bad argument - but I wanted to emphasize the absurdity of modern day existence. It's very clear that if anybody without a high profile did this, they would be in jail for sure. \nAnd to clarify, being powerful/elite just means somebody who can appoint someone to be a winner for some artificial reason. Hey, I'm not privy to all the information that politicians have. I accept that. But for a long time there's been a culture of fear pervading everybody's daily life when it comes to the political discourse. And unfortunately this is exploited consistently for short term political points.\nI'm not even sure what would really help. What does everybody else think? I think that there needs be a public elected body that makes the law transparent, easily understood, and consistent with defending the republic. We're only as good as the weakest link, and we're only as good as how we compensate for those weaknesses.", ">\n\nugh throw the book at both of them. Will this finally make biden decide not to run again??\nBiden hasn't interfered in the investigation and intentionally tried to hide docs and evade subpoenas like trump, which is why it's so bad for trump. But throw the book at the both of them to the fullest extent of the law. There needs to be examples.", ">\n\nRules for thee but not for me", ">\n\nWhen it was Trump it was the #1 trending post in like 3 hours on this sub while with biden… hahaha I love reddit", ">\n\nDemocrats and Republicans, two sides of the same shit coin. We can talk about why this isn’t as bad as trumps but at the end it’s all justifications. We need some fresh politicians.\nEdit: Let me clarify, I do think trumps handling of his situation was way worse, ethically and legally. I was talking more about the root of the issue of having classified documents where they shouldn’t be and the two party system as a whole. \nSupport ranked choice voting!", ">\n\nThey are different lmao", ">\n\nPerson One: Hits a person in the crosswalk because they weren’t paying attention. Immediately calls police and complies with investigation.\nPerson Two: Speeds up to hit person in crosswalk. Hides body, runs away. When body is found, denies all wrongdoing, eventually caves but says it’s ok because they weren’t in the crosswalk. Turns out there’s two bodies. \nHalf this thread: ITS THE SAME THING!!" ]

[]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures", ">\n\nThat was an eggceptable pun" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures", ">\n\nThat was an eggceptable pun", ">\n\nDon’t egg me on" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures", ">\n\nThat was an eggceptable pun", ">\n\nDon’t egg me on", ">\n\nAw shell, here we go again." ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures", ">\n\nThat was an eggceptable pun", ">\n\nDon’t egg me on", ">\n\nAw shell, here we go again.", ">\n\nYolk it up all you want, these prices aren’t funny!" ]

[ "I can't even offer you an egg in these trying times", ">\n\nOh shit that one wasn’t hard boiled. Want me to cook it up for you.", ">\n\nIt’s just a jumping off point!", ">\n\nI get that egg prices are higher due to the millions of chickens that had to be destroyed last year. But what's going on with dairy cattle that would make butter skyrocket?", ">\n\nAccording to the USDA, crop prices are up, labor prices are up, and the global market is producing less milk. Dairies have traditionally made up the difference with technology and scale efficiencies, but those gains are slowing down and natural disasters/climate change are affecting production.\nMargarine is even more expensive. It's mostly vegetable oil, and most of that is sunflower oil. Ukraine produces 31% of the world's sunflower oil -- or did, before the invasion. Producers are having to turn to palm, canola, and other more expensive oils.", ">\n\nHadn't heard this. I really pay attention to what's in my food and I can 100% say palm oil is now in everything unlike before COVID and even a year ago which is unfortunate.", ">\n\nPalm oil is very bad for the environment.", ">\n\nIt's a shame because it is a rather high-yield oil crop that is more efficient in terms of land used compared to other crops, palm oil does have its benefits. \nThe issue is the scale of our agriculture and that we're planting monoculture crops. The habitat destruction is off the chain because of our consumption of palm oil and the air pollution from burning the crops isn't helping either. \nAs it is with most things, the farming itself could be reasonable with some tweaks and have much less impact but that costs money and requires oversight which is not an option when it comes to capitalism (and consumption) that demands larger margins constantly", ">\n\nThe constant push for growth in margins is just insane and unsustainable. We can't grow infinitely.", ">\n\nInflationary money demands it.", ">\n\nCapitalism demands it.", ">\n\nProfits must be maintained.", ">\n\nEggs? More like chicken caviar now.", ">\n\n59.9%??? Much more than that here in Maine. Just this past summer I'd pay $1.99 for basic eggs. Today, I saw the same eggs for $5.49.", ">\n\nThey really shouldn't be selling expired food products like that. I would report them!", ">\n\nThanks for the laugh.", ">\n\nA goddamn loaf of bread was $5 yesterday at the local supermarket chain. The store bran loaf was the only bread under $5. Insane.", ">\n\nDude, a small pack of Kraft singles was $5!!!", ">\n\nEggs last year were about $2.50 a dozen, often times lower when on sale.\nI bought them yesterday for $5.99 a dozen. \nUp over 100%", ">\n\nI accidentally bought $8 eggs at Walmart. I thought my kid brother put the good eggs in my cart and I checked again and that's just what they charged me for store brand.", ">\n\nWait do people think there’s a difference in eggs? Is there a difference and I just never noticed?", ">\n\nIt's not so much the eggs are different but how the chickens are treated.\nSome brands ensure the chickens aren't as mistreated.", ">\n\n5 dollars for a 12 pack at aldis the other day, aldis always had eggs for a buck fifty or so, it was fucking wild to see, and super disheartening, times are rough right now and that was my go to cheap protein.", ">\n\nCostco has 24 eggs for 4.xxx", ">\n\nThree x's makes it look like Costco sells them down to the thousandth of a cent.", ">\n\nSignificant feggures", ">\n\nThat was an eggceptable pun", ">\n\nDon’t egg me on", ">\n\nAw shell, here we go again.", ">\n\nYolk it up all you want, these prices aren’t funny!", ">\n\nThat joke was bad, but omlette you get away with it" ]