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[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s)." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know..." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected" ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week." ]

[ "1 : investigate .\n2 : charge if investigation shows evidence of wrong doing .\n3 : prosecute in court to decide if guilty or innocent of wrong doing .\n4 : if found guilty then impose maximum sentencing .\n5 : For the Republicans now frothing at the mouth in excitement if youre not calling for excactly the same for Trump youre hypocrites and traitors to your country .\nEDIT : Cheers for the awards you lovely people : )", ">\n\nI'm fully comfortable with an investigation. And that investigation charging anyone found to have committed a crime. And anyone found guilty being punished in accordance with the law.\nI know of nobody on the left who thinks this shouldn't be the case. Zero. Not a single serious person on the left advocates not this.\nPlenty believe or think that this and Trump's issue with classified dox aren't the same thing--they they involve very different allowances, compliances, precedents, and behaviors. And have confidence in an investigation showing that. But, different or not, nobody on the left has breathed a word that Biden or any of his people are sacred or beyond the law.\nBoth sides are in no way the same.\nThey demonstrate it with every scandal and issue.", ">\n\nExactly. Things you will (hopefully) not hear:\n1) Obama declassified them with his mind.\n2) They were planted by the FBI.\n3) It's okay because someone else did it once too.\n4) This is being done to frame or embarrass Biden.\nIf Biden broke laws, he should face the consequences. If there may be charges but the Justice Department feels like they need to wait until he's out of office, then that's what should happen. Charges or not, if this becomes too big of a political liability, then Biden shouldn't seek reelection in 2024.", ">\n\nI 100% agree that there ought to be a reasonable investigation into this but I do have to wonder if any of this matters at all given that Biden is currently the president and therefore has not only the right to have classified information but also the ability to declassify that information.\nNot trying to make excuses for the oversight (or lack thereof) of classified documents, but it seems to me as though this requires an investigation into how classified documents are handled during and after individuals have been given such status and after said status has lapsed.\nLet's be perfectly honest, if they had taken different actions on the first set of documents, we likely wouldn't even know about this because there was nobody searching for them.\nHad Biden and his lawyers actually been seriously corrupt, they could easily have disposed of them in a fireplace or down a toilet and no one would know the better.\nThe fact that they brought this directly to the attention of the proper authorities is at least proof that they do have respect for the rule of law and are willing to except the consequences, even if it is going to be used to make political hay while the sun shines.", ">\n\nThe problem is that these documents were reportedly in his possession from the Obama presidency. So there were 4 years where he did not have that access.", ">\n\nThat's not true. Biden maintained a security clearance during his time out of office. He still had clearance for these documents.\nThe still relevant questions here are: 1. Were the documents properly handled given their classification level? (probably not). 2. What are the relevant laws to improper handling of classified documents. 3. These are records under the PRA and should have been turned over to NARA. (While that is a law there are no legal consequences to breaking it).", ">\n\nSo what happens if they find out it was handled inappropriately? What happens then?\nWill he get impeached as he is a sitting president? What about trump? Shouldn’t he also have the same punishment as Biden or does it depend on the documents that were mishandled?\nEdit: not sure why I am being downvoted for asking a question. Both parties should be investigated and handled appropriately per the law.", ">\n\nTrump did not have a security clearance when he removed the documents. Also Trump then with held the documents once they were discovered. It's one thing to say oh my bad, I have your property, here you can have it back. It's something else entirely when you discover you have someone else's property and refuse to give it back. We call that theft and there are much larger consequences to those types of actions.\nTo answer your first question though, what should happen is a full investigation of both Biden and Trump. And if any laws are found to be broken by either of them, then they should be charged for those and a trial conducted to examine the evidence and determine guilt. If Biden broke the law then yes, he should face the consequences of that under the law. Same goes for Trump.\nWe are still a nation of laws, however unfair they may be, and the laws should be applied equally to all citizens of this country. No one is above them.", ">\n\nI noted this the other day, there needs to be an investigation into how the Obama white house handled classified docs since we have two cases of documents not being where they should be. The GOP isn't qualified to do that investigation because they want a witch hunt. NARA handing this to the doj and them giving it to a special prosecuter from the Trump days is a reasonable course of action.", ">\n\nI don’t know a lot about US politics, but I thought Trump passed new laws requiring careful handling of classified documents. If this is right then only the classified docs held by Trump and Biden require investigation, but not Obama. \nIf I’m wrong then I’d appreciate someone setting me straight.", ">\n\nThis should be a wake up call to our Government. They need to enforce that document receipts be written when a secured document is checked out, the receipts held securely, the receipts audited regularly, and the receipts closed out upon return of the material. You make a copy - you have to sign a receipt so the copy is tracked. \nAny President (or VP), who leaves office and wants to take documents with them, needs to have someone review all documentation scheduled to be taken with them. Someone (a lawyer) needs to be in charge of this review and sign a statement indicating there are no secured documents in the haul away items.\nPeriod. This is not really all that difficult to do and ensure. What is apparent is the loose way documentation is being handled at the highest levels of our Government.", ">\n\nThey just have to handle it the same way that literally everybody else with a clearance is required to...", ">\n\nThis. Apparently it's not just the DOJ that has two sets of rules...", ">\n\nPeople with clearances are constantly given refresher training and reminders about how to treat classified info, but then they see on the news over and over that politicians break these rules and get no punishment.\n\"Rules for thee but not for me\" should be on the fucking dollar bill at this point.", ">\n\nYes, in my experience with classified documents it was never an option to take them home, nor even to remove them from the secure facility where they were located, stored in a safe whenever not checked out.", ">\n\nThe GOP in a nutshell:\nDemocrat President fully cooperates with law enforcement, is forthcoming, helping the investigation and taking full responsibility. GOP calls him a criminal.\nRepublican President lies to law enforcement, hides evidence, hires a lawyer, calls investigators names, blames the FBI, makes false claims and refuses to take any responsibility…. GOP calls him their hero.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nIt’s the obstruction that really sets the two apart. We would have never known about it if he had done the right thing within the year and a half up until the FBI showed up to his retirement home with a warrant.", ">\n\nLet me preface this by saying: I don’t care if he’s investigated and prosecuted for this. At all. Hell, trump and him can be roommates for all I care.\nbut\nThis is absolutely not the same thing as what trump did and anyone saying the two are equivalent is doing so in bad faith or doesn’t understand what they’re talking about\nTrump intentionally took thousands of documents, hid the fact he took them, miscatagorized them, refused to turn them over, hoarded some that he hadn’t turned over to pretend he did, and the documents he took had handwriting all over them and many were above top secret. Trump obviously showed that he did this intentionally and knowingly, and when confronted, deceitfully concealed them and attempted to retain them.\nBidens own staff turned over these documents, immediately after discovering them without attempt to conceal them or hide this from the media. It’s a mistake, a big mistake, a mistake big enough to put any normal citizen in jail, and one that I feel some sort of punishment would be justified. - but it is not the same as intentionally taking documents and concealing them from authorities. If this was a mistake and not intentional, it is being handled correctly now, and that counts for something.", ">\n\nNo, a normal citizen wouldn't be in jail for this. Not based on that we know at this point.\nAlso remember that Trump has even more documents he's hiding. They just got part of the mar a Lago stash.", ">\n\nA normal person having SCI documents in their garage or closet would absolutely face massive co sequences, up to and including jail time.", ">\n\nGiven that his lawyers immediately turned them over to NARA when they were never identified as missing in the first place, intent goes a long way. The whole reason NARA gave him so much leeway is because this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice, except trump is the only one who refused he had them, gave them some, hid the others in his desk he uses daily, and when he got raided claimed he personally owned them, and even now there are still documents unaccounted for. There's also no indication the Biden documents are SCI as of yet", ">\n\n\nbecause this has more than likely happened under every administration once or twice\n\nHow I see it. Tracking every piece of paper printer to shredder a few have to end up in a cabinet somewhere. So far Biden stuff seems \"lock it up, I'll read it later (forgets)\".", ">\n\nThis is exactly how i see it, or an aid put it in the safe and forgot to remove it, and given that these documents were never identified as missing or requested, im inclined to be kind in how i read this", ">\n\nOn the flip side, this completely demolishes the right's argument that Trump is being unfairly targeted. Really takes the wind from those sails.", ">\n\nI’m sorry to break this to you, but republicans’ sails are filled by rage and team identity, and there is plenty of that to go around.", ">\n\nI'm sure that when all the facts are known, there will be at least a dozen significant details that differentiate this, both as a legal matter and a practical matter, from what Trump did. But Americans and the American media aren't capable of nuance, so this will be Trump's 1000th Get Out of Jail Free card. Dude definitely sold his soul to the devil decades ago to be this charmed. I'm okay with it, though, because --justice aside -- the best case scenario for the U.S. is for Trump to remain alive and free to burn down the GOP when he doesn't get the nomination for 2024.", ">\n\nThere is obviously no equivalence to what Trump did, but you still have to be asking yourself \"WTF?\"\nDocuments in a locked filing closet at his old office was bad enough, but in his garage? Come on. Like it or not, Democrats have to be above reproach when it comes to stuff like this and the optics for this are beyond terrible.\nAnd it doesn't matter that it's nothing like what Trump did or that Biden and his team have been cooperating fully, it still should not have happened once, let alone multiple times.\nPlus I'd also like to know WTF no one knew these documents were missing? The archives knew Trump had withheld documents, so why didn't anyone know these were missing?", ">\n\nFor sure. When I heard this story, I literally shouted WTF! (but not abbreviated). This was followed, of course, by SMH. It's reaching comical levels now, with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.", ">\n\n\"with Biden commenting that the garage was secure because his Camaro was in there. Really??? I assume that The Onion writers are also yelling WTF! today.\"\nYeah, I couldn't believe he said that. He could have said that \"It's my residence and has always been protected by the Secret Service\" and that would still be crappy but at least not comical.", ">\n\nI can't believe we are even comparing the cost of a car to the potential costs of this kind of classified intelligence.", ">\n\nYep, it was an incredibly tone-deaf response.", ">\n\nWhat?!?!? No whiney excuses or pointing blame at the press, FBI or other party? So crazy.", ">\n\nI mean they didnt SWAT raid his house and we didnt get tin foil hat wearers live streaming from the gates. 1 out of 5 stars only because I cant give it 0.", ">\n\nIf the real story was the documents then the Trump story would have broken 6 months earlier when the documents were found instead of after he refused to return them.", ">\n\nThe difference between me and a Trump supporter is: if Biden did anything illegal, I want him to be held accountable. Period. This isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong.\nThere is a difference between being a supporter and a follower.", ">\n\n\nThis isn’t “fake news” just because Biden might have done something wrong\n\nWhere were you in the last threads?\n\nYeah former journalist here: this story reeks of ...something. NBC News Exclusive with a one source on background so deep there's no attributable information including an overview of possible job title? No additional information is known by this single source, as evidenced by this:\n\nThe classification level, number and precise location of the additional documents was not immediately clear. It also was not immediately clear when the additional documents were discovered and if the search for any other classified materials Biden may have from the Obama administration is complete.\n\nWhen you get info like this, you want it backed up by at least one other source, even if they also remain anonymous. It's most likely that what's being reported is true and that's why they're running with it but my post-Judith Miller journalism education means my spidey sense is tingling on this one. Call it racing for a scoop, call it inadequate sourcing, I just hope they can back this one up better than they did in their public reporting. If this turns out to be inaccurate it's unfathomably bad\n\n700 upvotes.\n--\n\n\nSeriously this sounds fishy as fuck.\n\nHow would cnn know what was in the files when bidens people didn’t open them. How would cnn know how many documents were there?\nThis reeks of…. Something. \n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nIn unrelated news, CNN was bought by a conservative billionaire seeking to turn the network into Fox 2.0 a while back\n\n140 upvotes\n--\n\nOh I know. That’s what I mean.\nHow do they have this information when no one on bidens team knows this stuff.\n\n40 upvotes\n--\n\nHey, look, a media outlet owned by a gigantic conglomerate carrying water for Republican bullshit! How curious!\nI mean it could also be simple clickbaiting too, because, you know, journalistic standards can always be degraded further, I guess. Either way, something definitely smells with this one. Maybe there will be better corroboration elsewhere.\n\n80 upvotes\n--\nOkay, bad or fake news media accusations aside, what's way more fun are the conspiracy theories!!\n--\n\nOdd that they're popping up now, given the circumstances.\nEven odder how they all seem to only deal directly with Biden and nothing else.\nEven odder when you consider a large part of the secret service decided to delete their own texts when ordered to produce them before the January 6th committee and are likely still loyal to the man who attempted a coup and remain so suspect that the current president has indicated multiple times that he doesn't trust them.\nJust odd.\n\n45 upvotes, over 10 replies, only one of them (at the very bottom) calling them out for the qanon crap. Planted by the Secret Service, Biden would never do that!!!", ">\n\nYeah I'm relieved by how sane this thread is compared to that last one. \nTurns out \"THE EVIL LYING MSM\" is a nonpartisan position I guess :/", ">\n\nIt blows republicans minds that democrats want to see this investigated. So outside their character to investigate a non-enemy, seems crazy to them. Kind of reminds me of when Desantis flew those migrants to Martha’s Vineyard thinking liberals would send them packing. Blew their minds when they were welcomed with open arms.", ">\n\nThe key differences here though, Biden is cooperating with investigators. He isn't trying to cover it up, he isn't trying to obstruct the process, he isn't trying to retroactively declassify with his mind, and he isn't going on the road to call this a hoax or play down what was discovered.\nThat being said, this was from when he was VP and the first documents were found in 2017 as far as I can see. They discovered more recently and of course Biden has been very forthcoming with handling this and as far as I can tell Biden has not attempted to sell or give these documents away.\nTrump, was president for 4 miserable years, took these files and actively tried to hold onto them. Only turning some over and not everything, and even worse tries to downplay it and even look for loopholes to get out of it or generate conspiracy theories. Whether Trump intended to sell these documents or give them away is unknown but possible.", ">\n\nEvery former president sweating bullets and checking their armoires right now.", ">\n\nNo former presidents are sweating anything, because they know good and god damn well that in this country, we don't punish people in positions of power.", ">\n\nI’ve never met a single Democrat that wasn’t in favor of accountability. \nIf President Biden committed a crime, I fully expect him to be investigated and punished for it. \nJustice demands accountability.", ">\n\nLegal experts agree that Trump was unlikely to see any legal trouble until he intentionally withheld subpoenaed documents and obstructed efforts to retrieve them.", ">\n\nThe conservative vs democrat view on this is great. \nConservatives made Trump out to be a victim. \nDemocrats are literally saying to investigate him and if he did commit a serious crime arrest and impeach him. \nIt's like democrats aren't in a a cult and can think for themselves and recognize their own faults like adults. \nCrazy that", ">\n\nbiden is a canny old dude. he probably told his lawyers to search for these knowing there’s always something and avoiding the gotcha happening closer to the election. Similar to how he ripped the Band-Aid off Afghanistan, and let everyone scream (I fully approved myself - 20 years is enough) but by the time we got to the midterms, no one really remembered it. this will be a nothing burger that will be handled appropriately, and puts the GOP in a weird position because the more they scream about it the more they have to reckon with the fact that their guy also did it in a much shadier fashion (and I think Biden knows that). So they can shut up about classified docs, or freak out, but they can’t do both.", ">\n\n\nbut they can’t do both.\n\nSeems to me like you've never met any Republicans. They are absolutely magical at holding two opposing viewpoints at the same time", ">\n\nHere's what I don't get: These documents are indexed. Anyone who gets them has to sign for them. They must be returned. There is a tracking mechanism for these archived documents.\nWhy is this not being addressed? I haven't heard shit about tracking on the news. Haven't read anything in print yet, but these documents are tracked, just like library books. We should know who took them out of archives, where they went, who signed for them....\nWhy is this not being discussed? It's like this is some BIG mystery when it really shouldn't be.", ">\n\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\n\nNo, it really wouldn't. It's pretty obvious Trump stole the documents he took to sell/ use in trade for money and power, the structure of the whole thing makes it clear. Plus him trying to blackmail Ukraine and then throw an insurrection to keep power, it's a no brainer what he was up to.\nThis doesn't have any of the earmarks of that sort of behavior.", ">\n\nThe fact that the National Archives never sought out these documents and Biden's lawyers immediately returned them leads me to believe there will be no criminal charges. Plus the fact that no president has ever been charged with a crime while in office makes me pretty confident as well.", ">\n\nI’m sick of Trump’s delusional rants and plotting to destroy our democracy. But I’m also weary of Biden’s missteps and baggage. It’s time for new blood in the upper echelons of American politics on both sides.", ">\n\nTrump is a criminal who should be in jail\nBiden does not have missteps or baggage, those are the best insults the Fear and Hate machine can stick on him, and those are nothing", ">\n\nI voted for Biden, but to say that he doesn’t have missteps or baggage simply ignores reality.", ">\n\nOk.\nAll human beings have missteps and baggage, so Hitler was the same as anyone else, just a few more missteps?\nMy point being, the two are so far apart that there is no comparison. Like comparing the heat of your stove to the sun.", ">\n\nGod damn it Biden. This is nothing like Trumps obvious crimes and attempts to cover it up, but you instantly lost control of the narrative on this. \nDoesn’t help that MSM is going full force on the both-sides-ism", ">\n\nA huge facepalm!", ">\n\nI like Biden, but this is absolute BS. \nAfter all of Biden's years in government, including 10 years in the Executive branch, he knew better than to mishandle classified materials like this. The result will probably be the weakening of the legitimate case against Trump, endless congressional and other investigations, and withering political attacks.\nBiden scored an own goal and now he will pay a heavy price for not following the law.", ">\n\nThis likely isn’t even on biden.", ">\n\nThey were reportedly found in his home, as the docs Trump had were found in his home. Who else is responsible for retaining classified materials in one's home except the homeowner?", ">\n\nReported by whom? I've yet to see any stories saying they were found in Biden's home. Just his office. If you want credibility, name your source(s).", ">\n\nOohh ohhh!!! Do George W. & Rumsfeld next!!! And then see what Bill and George H. are still hanging on to and we can highlight how crazy bad records management is and then dilute the whole DJT not releasing and withholding evidence story.... nice one /s", ">\n\nI forget who said it, but every president since WW2 would be in jail if international law was justly applied", ">\n\nThe big difference is Trump was hiding and obstructing. Biden is literally giving them the keys to his home", ">\n\nProsecute both Biden and Trump then stop electing 75+ year old mentally deficient Presidents.", ">\n\nDidn't he declassify them by just thinking about it?", ">\n\nPresident can, VP can’t.", ">\n\nNow that he's president. He did it retroactively. /S", ">\n\nThe train conductor told him he was forgiven.", ">\n\nAll I can say is investigate it, if he did something worthy of prison, then throw both him and Trump in together and Kamala Harris can be president, which is an added bonus because that'll make Republicans even more upset", ">\n\nI don’t like Harris, but having our first black, female president is definitely sure to ruffle Republican feathers.", ">\n\nYeah exactly. I figure with Republicans \"controlling\" the House, nothing is going to get done to benefit America anyway, may as well watch Republicans throw a racist fit again. We can relive the 'tan suit' days.", ">\n\nWell, if he resigns we will have the first female president in American History.", ">\n\nWhy would he resign?", ">\n\nHe wouldn't.", ">\n\nDeep state’s way of maintaining the status quo. This way Trump gets away scot free and everyone looks guilty. Nobody will be prosecuted and this will quietly go away. \nIt’s how they insure that the US is always in a state of struggle between D’s & R’s to distract people that the real struggle is Citizens Vs Corporations.", ">\n\nThe real answer right here. This should be the top comment", ">\n\nIt’s great that nearly everyone on the left support a full and fair investigation into these issues with Biden. \nA nice change from those on the Right who think Trump should be immune from legal consequences of any kind.", ">\n\nNot only is this bad, but it's also happening at the absolute worst time.", ">\n\nMaybe we should see what the docs are.", ">\n\nDoesn’t matter what they are, they’re classified. wrong is wrong.", ">\n\nIntent matters. So does what you do when you find out something wrong occurred.\nSaying \"wrong is wrong\" is like saying \"jaywalking is breaking the law just like robbing a store\" given the context. Your conservative so the bias is clear.", ">\n\n\nIntent matters\n\nNot always. Many laws and rules related to proper management of classified information does not care about intent. Neglectful management of such information can be criminal, even if you don't intend harm.", ">\n\nActually, cases against accidentally mishandling are rare as hell.", ">\n\nOkay? That does not mean it isn't a crime. \nAlso, it has not been shown that it was unintentional yet. If he even referenced any of those documents once since 2016, then a case for intent exists.\nIt is a serious issue. And now it may be nearly impossible to successfully charge Trump other than a slap on the wrist for the subpoena", ">\n\nObstruction and proof of willful retention and destruction. Those aren't slaps on the wrist. You're being ignorant or insincere. We'd never even of heard of Trump's documents if he just returned them.", ">\n\nClassified isn't secret and certainly isn't top secret. Moreover, certain documents don't retain classification indefinitely.", ">\n\nSome Top Secret documents were found as well.", ">\n\nWe don't have any confirmation on the contents of the documents. Like I've seen some news reporting that they were x or you but we don't have any real sources on it. \nWith Trump it was easy because we got literal photos of security markings.", ">\n\nCNN is wrong on this and they know better Then TSC/SCI is the highest classification.", ">\n\nYou splitting hairs and OK with him having Top Secret just cause CNN Is dumb?", ">\n\nNo one is splitting hairs. Getting information right is important. If you want to hold people responsible having facts right is essential. Getting the facts right should always be your priority.", ">\n\nThen let's get it right. TS (top secret) is the classification, SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is an access restriction that can apply to top secret or other levels of classification.", ">\n\nYea, which we've highlighted already. No confirmation of Biden having SCI documents has been reported.", ">\n\nLeave it to r/politics to play right into the GOP’s hand by acting like this is on the same level as what Trump did.", ">\n\nHow many classified documents does the law allow you to remove from a classified setting and store in god knows how many locations without being in violation? Is it 10...20...100? Let me clue you in...the answer is 0.", ">\n\nAside from the obvious fact that Trump had hundreds of classified documents, the key difference here is that Biden is actively complying with the National Archives, while Trump didn’t. This is still an irresponsible look for Biden, but it’s not on the same level as Trump.", ">\n\nI want there to be actual standards for these sorts of documents. Just like the assumed solid cybersecurity for our governing offices, we found out it anything but. I wonder how badly they manage confidential documents.\nBigger worry is.. why now? What initiated these sudden searches for secret documents that Biden may have had access to when he was VP? Very suspicious timing, I wouldn't be surprised if this was instigated by Trump loving folks.\nAnd I still think anything Biden had was probably due to poor security practices, where the documents held by Trump were for other reasons. And purposely not returned.", ">\n\nWow. We are learning our Executive branch really sucks at handling classified information. \nNot saying it’s okay, but this is the reasonable way to handle the situation: report it timely as soon as it’s found and start working to mitigate.\nTrumps tactic: hide it for as long as possible and deny!", ">\n\nI'll reserve judgement until I see them atop the personal library rug pattern", ">\n\nReally, can anyone here see Trump or Biden filling? No, because all companies and esp government have Filers do this. Files are brought to their desks and returned by the Filers. Secret Files are never to be taken home. Travesty that White house failed to have proper methods, rules, & designation of said files. President's don't do filling! It's a tedious job, also ruined my nail 💅 polish!! 😹", ">\n\nThough the situations are factually and legally different, the discovery of classified documents at two separate locations tied to Biden — as well as the appointment of a new special counsel — would almost certainly complicate any prosecution that the department might bring against Trump.\nThe main takeaway for me", ">\n\nSeems like it was planned to let Trump off the hook. However, I think it's important to understand intent. Much like hillary with her private email server, this shows Biden with a certainly level of incompetence. Trump appeared to knowingly take top secret documents, has repeatedly hindered investigations along with his lawyers signing false declarations. These are not the same.", ">\n\nThe people that live on the extremes of their political ideologies are troubled.", ">\n\nFriend told me about this today...he said it's 100% worse than what Trump did. LMAO", ">\n\nSo much whataboutism on this topic. Just talk about the issue at hand; the Trump situation is being dealt with. Don't use one to determine the course of action for the other.\nJust enforce the damn law on everyone with no exceptions. It's that easy.", ">\n\nReally beginning the question the guy at CNN who keeps pushing this story forward. Yeah its a problem but at the same time it is not even remotely to the level of what Trump did. Context matters but CNN and in particular this analyst who keeps talking about it seem to have some type of agenda.", ">\n\nRepublican clowns are gonna have a field day with this and show how stupid and hypocritical they all are. If they want to even think of going after Biden then they better get ready to throw trump in prison for life because what trump did is on a whole new level.", ">\n\nWhile I agree this is nothing like trumps situation, does anyone else not like the idea of ANY person taking classified docs to there personal residence? Like is it ok for ppl who work at the archive to take it home, prolly not.", ">\n\nThis is the proper perspective.", ">\n\nThis is going to disqualify Biden from running in 2024 which is exactly what the establishment wants", ">\n\nPisses me off that the Biden staff are so stupid.", ">\n\nYep! Downright idiotic that his team didn't have all of this cleared out before he started campaigning or at the very least before he took office as President once he won.", ">\n\nI worked in a secured (secret) office. Never ever would documents marked secret be allowed out of the area. If there was a reason to do so, the documents would be in a locked container and escorted only to another secure area. This is unbelievable. Appallingly behavior to handle our country’s secrets in this manner…", ">\n\nIncoming republicans calling this \"The Plan\" to move Kamala to President.", ">\n\nA 1 time discovery of hidden documents is one thing, the fact it happened again is definitely concerning and we should definitely look into if Biden has more documents. As for why the first batch was held in secret until after the Midterms, I don't think anyone is confused why he waited on that. But yeah, like Trump, if Biden has secret documents from his time as VP, the Justice Department needs to do an investigation on it.", ">\n\nFor fucks sake…is everyone just taking these documents home and forgetting about it or something?", ">\n\nHow come we are just hearing about this now when it happened in November? And why has nothing about this made it anywhere near the front page? Even after a second batch of files were found?", ">\n\nIn my experience, most issues like this are due to poor business process design.\nJust who the Hell is doing classified document control in the WH? Nobody, apparently. Honor system? Among politicians (RUJK)?\nHow is it possible that controlled/classified/accountable documents disappear and the person to whom they are assigned to is not called in by security for a grilling?\nAt the company I worked at, I had to provide periodic and occasional random full (classified) document inventories. It was a chore, occasionally stressful.\nOne more question: how the Hell does Trump get to whip out his cellphone and snap a picture of an intelligence satellite photo? We civilians had to leave our cellphones/pagers/laptops at the security desk and pass through a scanner.\nThat's what I would like to know...", ">\n\nCharge him and Trump then Biden can just resign. Harris takes charge pardons Biden then let’s Trump go to jail for any of the 100 reasons he should already be there.", ">\n\nRidiculous, how is he supposed to sell secrets to china if he can't take the secrets home?", ">\n\nC’mon man. All you had to do was nothing at all and cruise. Yeezus…. Bring on new blood next election", ">\n\nPersonal library in “garage” with corvette…", ">\n\nI am convinced that no elected official over the age of 60 at this knows fuck-all about safe keeping of private, or top secret documents/files. Both Democrats and Republicans REPEATEDLY use personal emails or private emails servers. Both of them have mishandled top secret documents. Our intelligence agencies are proving to be toothless jokes at this point.", ">\n\nI'm fucking done", ">\n\nDang, man... We can only help you so much. You gotta give us something to work with here, Joe.", ">\n\nMy take exactly!!", ">\n\nTo all of you saying “it’s not the same or as bad as the what Trump did.” \nIt doesn’t matter. At all. This is literally Exactly the kind of thing right wingers wait for. We’re going to hear about this for the next 2 years", ">\n\nIm fine with both Biden and Trump sharing a jail cell.", ">\n\nWhat law do you think Biden has broken though? We know Trump obstructed and even got photos of documents being destroyed. Like actually tell me what you think was violated. Because we've had numerous lawyers say it wasn't illegal because of how it was handled. And it has been Trumps unwillingness to return them and lying about them which may get him in trouble.", ">\n\nAs someone who just went through my mandatory annual classified information handling training I'm annoyed with everyone in the government right now.\nIt's a federal crime to mishandle those documents. I can lose my job walking through the wrong door with my phone turned off but still in my pocket. It takes me a tremendous amount of time and effort to move classified documents around.\nAnd yet these yahoo's are just running around forgetting documents everywhere. If any of us mere mortals that have to deal with secret information did even a fraction of what they have we'd lose our jobs, our clearance, and likely be facing criminal charges.\nFuck all of them.", ">\n\nDoes your clearance level allow you to have access to a personal security attaché which brings information to your location then returns it to where it belongs? Because that's how people like the President and Vice President handle these documents. As you mentioned your clearance, you're familiar with chain of custody I assume?", ">\n\nIs the think tank in that chain?", ">\n\nSo then you figure out who failed to return the documents after he was briefed. Do you not understand how simple that concept is?", ">\n\nIt seems shady that lawyers at $500/hour were packing boxes. There’s more to this than is being disclosed. There’s also the likelihood that someone remembered confidential files being in an office, especially after the Trump activities.\nI do give credit that Biden can say he doesn’t remember. Pickle brain would be totally justified.", ">\n\nWell at least now that Biden confirms it we don't need to accuse NBC and CNN of spreading poorly sourced fake news, and we don't need to accuse the secret service of planting the evidence either. \nYou know, like this subreddit did earlier today. In top level comments. That were all upvoted to the top. Cause things were \"smelling fishy.\"\n--\nReddit aside, this is a really bad look. It doesn't matter that Trump did much worse, this is pretty bad. It makes Biden look irresponsible and careless.", ">\n\nCool. Hold them accountable. You’re still an idiot if you believe this is at all comparable to Trump’s situation.", ">\n\nDamn Joe. What is you doing bb. At this rate the only thing they can lean on politically is if the feds have evidence that Trump & co were willing to sell out secrets, or that the amount of files Trump had was egregiously worse. But at this rate, wouldn’t be surprised if Biden started stacking up boxes too gahdamn.", ">\n\nBiden didn't lie and attempt to put it elsewhere and destroy evidence. It's still vastly different", ">\n\nI said politically. Criminally they should be investigated for sure. But doesn’t matter optically because Bidens fucked the optics up so hard now.", ">\n\nNo one who would have ever voted for him anyway is going to be changed by this lol.\nI'd rather a younger dem run regardless", ">\n\nYeah, this guy isn't getting re-elected", ">\n\nLol he just hit 50% approval this week.", ">\n\nNot seeing that. I think he's doing a great job and would vote to re-elect personally, but I'm realistic in thinking this and the media's sensationalistic framing is going to affect his approval negatively." ]