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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset1

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[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?" ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation.", ">\n\nIf she came from a wealthy family with even a few contacts she would be back in England right now however unpleasant she is." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation.", ">\n\nIf she came from a wealthy family with even a few contacts she would be back in England right now however unpleasant she is.", ">\n\nPeople from wealthy families aren't exactly gunning to JOIN ISIS. They probably would do profiteering, but rich people have a vastly different mindset." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation.", ">\n\nIf she came from a wealthy family with even a few contacts she would be back in England right now however unpleasant she is.", ">\n\nPeople from wealthy families aren't exactly gunning to JOIN ISIS. They probably would do profiteering, but rich people have a vastly different mindset.", ">\n\nTrue but when rich and or connected kids do crazy shit they make it back home." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation.", ">\n\nIf she came from a wealthy family with even a few contacts she would be back in England right now however unpleasant she is.", ">\n\nPeople from wealthy families aren't exactly gunning to JOIN ISIS. They probably would do profiteering, but rich people have a vastly different mindset.", ">\n\nTrue but when rich and or connected kids do crazy shit they make it back home.", ">\n\nWe hanged the Brits who joined the Nazis when they tried to return to Britain after their defeat." ]

[ "Nike exec kicking the air right now seeing this thumbnail.", ">\n\nIts almost as bad as the endorsement the Taliban give to Toyota", ">\n\nAnd yet the good folks at browning share none of that bad pr.", ">\n\nWhy would they?", ">\n\nI assume he's referring to the use of browning machine guns by terrorist groups.", ">\n\nMaybe, but since browning does not make those, it’s a bad comparison.", ">\n\nbrowning doesn't produce the .50 BMG? I assumed the fact bmg stands for browning machine gun meant that it was. I imagine it's contributing to other people's confusion as well.", ">\n\nYea. They were invented by John browning, but the modern Browning Arms Company only exists for bolt and lever action rifles.", ">\n\nMakes sense, thanks for the explanation/correction", ">\n\nHappy to help.", ">\n\nShe said the Manchester bombing that children died in was justified. She has repeatedly shown no remorse for her part in brutal slaughter. She acted like one of her babies was a prop rather than a living thing. She repeatedly said she didn't regret joining ISIS and only stopped coming into interviews in religious clothes when PR feedback shown it didn't help.\nIt is a tragedy that she was convinced as a child to give up safety to travel across the world to join a vile religious terrorist group but as an adult she still approves of these things most teenagers understand to be wrong. She is a lost cause and the time to help her has passed. She's a risk, her lack of empathy or remorse really suggests she may radicalise others as she doesn't joining but that ISIS lost.\nThe lessons to learn here are how to stop others doing what she did. The people who she abused should be those who give her justice now", ">\n\nShe still comes across as clueless as to why people are wary of her. She willingly joined the organization that stuck people in cages and set them alight. Oh woe is me, I don't know why people in the UK are being so mean to me. All I did was run away and join Daesh, which is no different from a parking ticket or littering, right?", ">\n\nTo me it doesn't come across as clueless but rather deliberately disingenuous. It screams facade which would suggest she's far more dangerous than she claims. She is deliberately trying to distance herself without renouncing anything and playing dress up to appear normal rather than a dangerous extremist who fondly talked of loving living in ISIS zones with their brutality. She speaks as if she wants enough deniability to manipulate sympathy without putting a target on her head for those she sides with. \nIt honestly seems like someone is feeding her PR feedback as she tweaks her performance each time. Her in full extremist garb didn't go down well with the public so she has been dressed in someone else's clothes. Whether it was journalists or a team she is working with we won't know. She wants to return and this behaviour, alongside as an adult saying the Manchester Arena bombing was justifed despite children dying, seems strongly like she may wish to come back for evil intentions.\nWhile normally it is safe to explain things with stupidity rather than malice, this is a woman who has such strong bloodlust she put herself in danger then fondly talks about it without remorse.", ">\n\nagree. \n\nBut what was there to obsess over, we went to ISIS that was it, it was over, it was over and done with, what more is there to say?\n\nSo much more to say. But she’s putting on this airhead act like “what i joined isis so what?” She knows what she did and clearly does not regret it.", ">\n\nYou have to be pretty fucking cold to be unable to fake regret during an interview about how you enabled war crimes and potentially engaged in war crimes along with crimes against humanity.\nIt frustrates me that people are falling for it and while it gives me conflicting thoughts on certain aspects such as removing citizenship, I cannot empathise or sympathise with such evil.", ">\n\nSo she admits she joined a terror group that wanted to take over \"the world\" and now that the group failed, she says, oh never mind, I want to go home. I seem to think that treason is the term and some innocent people who were wrongly accused of treason were cleared only decades later and she seems to believe she is \"special\" and given a free pass back to UK. NOPE", ">\n\nFun fact, Brits that went to join the Nazis during WW2 were hanged when they came back.", ">\n\nThat is a fun fact.", ">\n\nIt's also mostly wrong. John Amery, who was probably the most noteworthy, was hanged. But most of the British who went to join and fight for the nazis were not", ">\n\nParty pooper.", ">\n\nIt amazes me that anyone would want to join ISIS, let alone a woman.\nShe deserves zero sympathy.", ">\n\nShe's a hybristophile for sure.", ">\n\nBefore googling, thought that meant someone attracted to hybrids. You learn something new everyday", ">\n\n\n\"I'm not this person that they think I am\"\n\nOh, so you're not the person that joined a terrorist state and betrayed your country? \nFuck off already. So much bullshit in this article making out shes so innocent like she accidentally slipped and ended up in Syria joining ISIS.", ">\n\nIf ISIS wasn't thrashed, she would still be there right now without a second thought of coming back to the UK.", ">\n\n\"I think most people will say that, frankly, we owe her nothing. She got herself into this mess and frankly it's down to her to work out how she's going to get out of it,\" he said.\"\nCouldn't have said it better myself. She was grown enough to figure out how to make this bed for herself, knowing who she be lying down with. She can be grown enough to deal with the fallout and not expect people to just get over it and not talk it.\nTeenager or not, if she were a man, she wouldn't be getting so much of a second look at all under these circumstances; if any.", ">\n\nHonestly fuck her.\nAt no point when I was her age encouraged to join a foreign terror organisation.", ">\n\nHow many teenagers idolatrize communism and unironically would commit sabotage if asked by a communist government...", ">\n\nAs a former American teenage communist enthusiast who still attends Young Communist meetings in my late 20s.... none? I never knew anyone who was interested in actual sabotage or direct action, we wanted to start electing socialist candidates.\nBeing interested in socialism doesn't mean someone worships obviously inhumane regimes or wants to be a terrorist lol, you're watching too much scary conservative media.", ">\n\nSocialist or communist?\nI havent known any communist that even got to be candidate in USA", ">\n\nSo 1 as a minor councilman xd?", ">\n\nYou're 0 for 3 here.", ">\n\nWhat took her so long?", ">\n\nHer 'coming of age' despite being an A* student at the time & making the conscious decision to be smuggled to Syria via Turkey", ">\n\nHow tf can an A* student decide to join an organization that doesn’t believe she even has a right to an education.", ">\n\nBecause teenagers are easy to manipulate. She was easier than most. Maybe even because she was a Grade A student.\nBeing good at math and having healthy beliefs are in no way the same thing.", ">\n\nFormer teenage girl here. Whenever I hear her story, she mentions \"marrying ISIS fighters\" or going there to be a housewife. She just strikes me as being dumb and horny honestly. She couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.", ">\n\n\nShe couldn't have sex where she lived in the UK because her parents would find out and it would destroy her reputation and they would shame her for becoming a westernized slut.\n\nMuch much better to join a terror organisation to bang a guy that will have been assigned to her. Much better for her reputation.", ">\n\nBut that was actually sort of \"true\" in her case. She was raised a conservative Muslim and was thus easy to groom by ISIS. She couldn't get married at 15 in the UK but she also couldn't have sex or even kiss a boy. In her mind, getting married to a \"good Muslim man\" after running away to join ISIS was holy.\nIt's insane but religious beliefs are often insane.", ">\n\nIn the US and UK we take for granted the lifestyles we lead until they are taken away. This young woman is disgusting. Her comment about \"Not being bothered by severed heads in baskets\" is particularly disturbing. I hope she never sets foot in the west again.", ">\n\nI still say that even on our worst days, we're a damn sight better than many other places around the world. We can tell our politicians in both the US and UK to fuck off right to their faces and not be facing the death penalty.", ">\n\nSo she should” accept “ that she lost her citizenship.\nHonestly enough with the sympathy for these people who literally condoned and facilitated the literally slavery of underaged girls!", ">\n\nShe just had a deep urge to murder and torture. Whats the problem?", ">\n\n“Ayo my terrorist group I joined failed can I come back and live with you guys?” Lmao nah", ">\n\nActions have consequences and whilst I don't doubt the theist manipulation of ISIS against any who they think they can recruit, you don't get to just wipe it away and go \"Oopsie, do over!\".\n \nIt's telling that she's trying to shift blame; in the planning a list is found, at her home (I think?) and she blames one of the dead gils and says \"One of us was stupid..\" Not, \"Yeah, we, as a group planned it after being radicalised, we fucked up on that one thing!\" but \"Yeah, my mate was fucking dumb.\" Sometimes she does sound apologetic and genuine, others definitely not quite as much....\n \nShe lost friends, 3 children and is now stuck in PoW camp. But all of that is of her own making, her own decisions, her actions. She was young, yes, but this wasn't accidentally kicking a football into a window and smashing it kind of \"Whoops!\". This took planning, coordination, drive ... if she comes back, should the legal back-and-forth go in her favour, she'd be on a lifetime of monitoring, hidden with a new identity and her only real contacts would be her handlers, local authorities and that's about it. The best she can hope for is a repressive lifetime of being watched 24/7, every movement tracked and detailed, every communication she has (Even if she were allowed access to devices to facilitate such) being poured over... even IF she is genuine and is de-radicalised, there's no way of knowing for sure and she'll always be a security risk.", ">\n\n\nshe'd be on a lifetime of monitoring\n\nIF by some chance she was allowed back into the UK, I doubt she would be allowed out on the streets. She would be facing the rest of her life in jail.", ">\n\nDidn’t the UK revoke her citizenship? Bangladesh doesn’t claim her either. She is essentially stateless, so no one has any obligation to take her in.", ">\n\nShe's tried appealing to the UK for her citizenship to be restored, but the way I see it, if you go join a terrorist group, you've made up their mind for them.", ">\n\nThis is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)\n\n\nShamima Begum has said she accepts that she joined a terror group when she fled Britain as a schoolgirl for the so-called Islamic State - and said she understands the public anger towards her.\nFormer children's minister Tim Loughton told the BBC it was still not clear why Ms Begum joined IS as a teenager and \"what forces brainwashed her\", but he said public sympathy for her when she first went missing had increasingly been replaced by anger.\nThat's why it's so hard the way my life has turned out being all over the media because I'm not a person that likes a lot of attention on me,\" she told the BBC. The Shamima Begum Story podcast is available on BBC Sounds and a feature length documentary will be on BBC iPlayer from early February.\n\n\nExtended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Begum^#1 think^#2 join^#3 Syria^#4 BBC^#5", ">\n\nFuck that terrorist.", ">\n\nLiterally or figuratively?", ">\n\nIf she gets rejected... What nationality will she hold? None?", ">\n\nHer parents were Bangladeshi also so she has that, but Bangladesh don't want her. She's just stuck in a POW camp currently iirc", ">\n\nDidn't they also say they'd execute her if she gained citizenship?", ">\n\nYes. Sorta. Some law from like 1950 gives her Bangladeshi citizenship by birthright. However, the Bangladeshi government has formally said she will be executed if she comes on Bangladeshi soil in accordance with their zero tolerance policy on Terrorism", ">\n\nShe literally admits to doing her own planning to go to Syria. How is there even anything to discuss? When you go join a group that wants to kill innocent people all over the world, this the kinda shit that happens. She says in this piece also that she feels people are mad at ISIS and not her. No chick, we hate you too.", ">\n\nYeah sure, I joined the Nazis. But it seems like you’re unfairly taking out your hatred of the Nazis on me! Clearly I’m the victim here.", ">\n\nShe can stay right where she is", ">\n\nEnough. Stop bloody well talking to her. She is a terrorist and can rot.\nBBC, we pay for you. Stop wasting our money.", ">\n\nNot sure what the agenda is here. There seems to be a real push to make her out to be a victim and to relate her to us. Western clothes, etc.\nWhat next: \"I Was Only Trying To Help People\" - The Harold Shipman Story", ">\n\nDid she ever admit she was in the wrong and genuinely made steps to disassociate herself from ISIS?", ">\n\nNope. She even said she had no problem seeing severed heads in baskets", ">\n\nSounds like zero remorse. I don’t blame the UK for wanting her out.", ">\n\nHer third kid finally died. Saw an interview where the kid was still alive. Oh well, burn in hell lady.", ">\n\nBring her back and upon landing on UK soil, hang her. Be done with it.", ">\n\nAs a person who seeks an end as a childfree GenX recluse; Theres is a line in the sand regarding \"are you a participating city-dweller or just counted out loud as one of us,\" which this lady, that dipshit from Alabama tryin to get back in, and countless others crossed.\nChoke on the fucking sands you embraced as home while pining for the civilization you turned your back on.", ">\n\nI guess she was inspired by Nike to...just do it.", ">\n\nThis lady’s argument is literally “okay so I joined ISIS it’s over.”", ">\n\nI’ve no sympathy for the filthy little B**** but since IS was never a state then she can’t have legally renounced her U.K. citizenship (besides she was underage and couldn’t be responsible at the time) and it is illegal under international law to leave a person stateless. In other words, the disgusting POS is a British problem. Take her back and lock her up, you should have done it years ago.", ">\n\nStop trying to portray her as a victim. She isn't one.\nStop wasting funds and time interviewing her while you're at it as well.\nShe left to join a well known terrorist organization at the time, every 15 year old at the time she left, knew damn well what ISIS were and what they were doing. She should have no sympathy whatsoever.", ">\n\nYou’re still not welcome so go to Bangladesh your extended family will look after you.", ">\n\nApparently the Bangledeshi government has indicated that they would hang her.", ">\n\nSounds like the problem is resolved", ">\n\nAt some point some disaffected, British Simp is going to go to Syria and marry her, checkmate Briton.", ">\n\nWhat I'd like to know is why the BBC are trying to keep this former traitor is the public eye? The BBC supposedly works for the people of this country and the overwhelming view of the country is that she should rot out there. Why are they spending tax-payers money to make documentarys of this person?", ">\n\nBecause people are interested in seeing someone they hate getting what's coming to them?\nOr even just a story about someone getting the bad end duento their own actions.\nIt's how greek tragedies work.", ">\n\nGood point I guess but (and I'm only speaking for myself here) I'd completely forgotten about her until I saw this Reddit post. Why do we have to be reminded that she's still alive?", ">\n\nBecause enough people know about her for a reminder to sell virtual paper.\nPoint in case, we're both here arguing about it.", ">\n\nI feel for her, after all she was a child when this happened.\nHowever the problem is that there is absolutely no way to know if she is going to be a threat to the UK in the future \nI can't imagine anybody personally vouching for her except possibly family and their judgement can't be trusted.", ">\n\nHer own father has distanced himself from her and denounced her as an extremist. Her own family wants nothing to do with her.", ">\n\nI am not sure why the hate for my post. I understand her family doesn't want anything to do with her.", ">\n\nWell where is she now? If she's in the UK, ship her ass back to Syria and leave it at that.", ">\n\nShe's in a gated filthy camp, that's why she's saying anything and playing dress up to try and go back to the UK. She knows even the prisons in UK are better than staying in that place.", ">\n\nWaka waka eyeyeh", ">\n\nIs she a terrorist? Yes.\nShould she be deported back to the UK? Also yes. Unless of course, UK believes ISIS is a state and therefore she has some other country's citizenship. She is a British problem and UK can't wash its hands off this problem.", ">\n\nI believe she also has or can have Bangladeshi citizenship, that's why the UK courts keep upholding her being stripped of her UK citizenship", ">\n\nShe never had Bangladeshi citizenship. Her parents did. She always had British citizenship. Needless to say, Bangladesh isn't interested in giving her citizenship any time soon and if UK tries to force Bangladesh, Bangladesh would label it as colonialist or imperialist behaviour.", ">\n\nlabel it however they want, she is entitled to it through her parents - they might not like it though", ">\n\nI have tons of empathy for people like her and the other girl from Alabama that were brained wash, but no neither one should have their citizenship restored. We often have to pay harshly for mistakes.", ">\n\nUnfortunately. If I were a UK citizen, I would protest not to return it", ">\n\nI’m sure she was warned by family and friends… when you go your own way ..you own up… don’t play the victim card.", ">\n\nI think she gets one \"do over\" but after that no more (possibly 2 more, but not 3- that's my red line). \nAnd she has to really swear on the bible that she won't misbehave this time.", ">\n\nNot surprised at all", ">\n\nJust makes me wonder how many are like her living in the UK right now, scary thought.", ">\n\nFucking duh 🙄", ">\n\n\"Accepts\" = yeah I did it or whatever god why do you care?", ">\n\nWhy are we still talking about this silly chick?", ">\n\nIt's a violation of human rights to leave any person stateless. Period.", ">\n\nDon’t knowingly commit treason by joining a terrorist organization with the goal of world domination.", ">\n\nCool motive, still a violation.", ">\n\nIf she came from a wealthy family with even a few contacts she would be back in England right now however unpleasant she is.", ">\n\nPeople from wealthy families aren't exactly gunning to JOIN ISIS. They probably would do profiteering, but rich people have a vastly different mindset.", ">\n\nTrue but when rich and or connected kids do crazy shit they make it back home.", ">\n\nWe hanged the Brits who joined the Nazis when they tried to return to Britain after their defeat.", ">\n\nReally? Were they all rich and well connected? \nActually i can think of another rich well connected bunch of kids now that didn't \" get out\" The Russian Royal Family. \nSo maybe i was wrong." ]

[]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks…." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind.", ">\n\nAll cultures do this… not just black people. I personally think it’s good to celebrate the achievements in your community. They worked really hard and deserve the recognition. And of course no one wants to be known for the bad actions of one person. Because a majority of people are not like that and it leads to discrimination. I’m sure Muslims don’t like being labeled “terrorists” just like black people don’t like being labeled “thugs” or Hispanics as “illegal immigrants”. It has a huge negative impact. Black excellence and black girl magic have a positive impact." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind.", ">\n\nAll cultures do this… not just black people. I personally think it’s good to celebrate the achievements in your community. They worked really hard and deserve the recognition. And of course no one wants to be known for the bad actions of one person. Because a majority of people are not like that and it leads to discrimination. I’m sure Muslims don’t like being labeled “terrorists” just like black people don’t like being labeled “thugs” or Hispanics as “illegal immigrants”. It has a huge negative impact. Black excellence and black girl magic have a positive impact.", ">\n\n\"You believe what you know\"?\nJust as you might think they are ignorant, I believe I share the same view .. just directed towards you. Not that I'm right either, but what you're claiming is without clear examples, evidence or just plain coherence." ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind.", ">\n\nAll cultures do this… not just black people. I personally think it’s good to celebrate the achievements in your community. They worked really hard and deserve the recognition. And of course no one wants to be known for the bad actions of one person. Because a majority of people are not like that and it leads to discrimination. I’m sure Muslims don’t like being labeled “terrorists” just like black people don’t like being labeled “thugs” or Hispanics as “illegal immigrants”. It has a huge negative impact. Black excellence and black girl magic have a positive impact.", ">\n\n\"You believe what you know\"?\nJust as you might think they are ignorant, I believe I share the same view .. just directed towards you. Not that I'm right either, but what you're claiming is without clear examples, evidence or just plain coherence.", ">\n\nWell literally that's human nature. Why do people so strongly believe in their respective religions and decry all others? Cause they grew up arbitrarily believing the religion as their parents taught them" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind.", ">\n\nAll cultures do this… not just black people. I personally think it’s good to celebrate the achievements in your community. They worked really hard and deserve the recognition. And of course no one wants to be known for the bad actions of one person. Because a majority of people are not like that and it leads to discrimination. I’m sure Muslims don’t like being labeled “terrorists” just like black people don’t like being labeled “thugs” or Hispanics as “illegal immigrants”. It has a huge negative impact. Black excellence and black girl magic have a positive impact.", ">\n\n\"You believe what you know\"?\nJust as you might think they are ignorant, I believe I share the same view .. just directed towards you. Not that I'm right either, but what you're claiming is without clear examples, evidence or just plain coherence.", ">\n\nWell literally that's human nature. Why do people so strongly believe in their respective religions and decry all others? Cause they grew up arbitrarily believing the religion as their parents taught them", ">\n\nyea that’s basically my post" ]

[ "Their adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nThat describes almost literally every single human being. I don't know a single adult who's current identity isn't strongly shaped by their childhood.", ">\n\nof course, I’m talking about extremes tho. Read my comment up above", ">\n\nIt sounds more like you're only talking about the people who grow up to be something you dislike. Everyone is shaped strongly by their childhoods. Some people grow up to be cultish devotees because of their childhood, some grow up to strongly oppose the things they witnessed during their childhood.", ">\n\nThis comment reminds me of a LOT of ex-evangelicals on TikTok, they tend to be a perfect example of the latter group.", ">\n\nI think I agree with this. Pretty much completely. Not as a condemnation of any demographic of people who strongly takes pride in their own nationality, but simply as proof that most humans are highly susceptible to cultish behavior, especially when it's something they learn from their parents.\nIt really all comes down to what kind of things you were exposed to as a child, and how you reacted to them. Sometimes you get people who strongly form their identities based specifically on the opposite of what their parents were trying to indoctrinate them with.", ">\n\nThe idea of placing maximum emphasis on human individuality is a popular, modern social construct. We crave individuality but we are ultimately all part of a larger group. The benefit to that is that it provided a larger social safety net and assisted humans in their survival. \nCulture grounds us.\nWhy are people so intent to stand out as different? Is it because we as a generation are particularly intelligent or enlightened? Not really. I think any of us born 200 years ago would have acted like like people 200 years ago. \nI think the idolization of individuality befote group benefits consumerism more than anything.", ">\n\nCan't throw the baby out with the bath water. Expansion of individual rights and the development of science are tied up in 'enlightenment ideals' of individualism over tradition. Humans by nature are inclined to identify by ingroups, like with anything it's a balance. One could hope we can make all humans our ingroup by rationality alone, but that's definitely not where we're at today", ">\n\nGo on tribal land an express that opinion.", ">\n\nyour point?", ">\n\nThey have a sense of pride that will not be broken. Be careful who you express that opinion to.", ">\n\nIt’s inherent in our nature to want to belong. If our group all believes one thing, we are more likely to believe it. Its gives us a group identity. As long as you stay within the group, you’ll always have that support system. I think it probably evolutionary feature that the species. It applies to all groups though and not just ancestry(ie. Political party, citizenship)\nI understand what you are saying though, some people take it too far. That happens with everything though.", ">\n\nwould it not be better for those groups to be created by shared ideals or experiances, rather than shared appearances?", ">\n\nAppearances? Nationality = appearance to you?", ">\n\n… most of the time the main reason why people stay in cults after being raised in them is because they’re VICTIMS. There’s much abuse and manipulation that happens during the children years if you grow up in a cult. Sure they “want” to stay, but that’s only because of the abuse and manipulation they endured as children and they don’t really feel like they have any other choice.", ">\n\nWhy does it bother you? lol do you get mad that some people have 2-3 American flags on their front lawn?", ">\n\nAnd maybe those ethnicities he mentions are trying to hold onto their culture despite pressure from those folks with 10 US flags waving from their trucks….", ">\n\nNot sure about the cult comparison but fanatism pisses me off no matter what part of life it is.\nSport fanatism, religious fanatism, nationalist or culural fanatism, or whatever else there is to be fanatic about. If youre as dead set on a topic it tells me you have either nothing else in your life to be proud of or youre simply narrow minded", ">\n\nAgreed. I get really annoyed by gender fanaticism. Specifically guys. I work in Construction and every time there’s a new hire and a little info about them it’s always the same hobbies; hunting, fishing, outdoors, trucks, ATV’s, etc. I’m always wondering if these people are really into all of that or are they just hell bend on doing “man” things. Obsessing with being a stereotypical “guy”.", ">\n\nBeing the same color as someone, having the same tribes or nations of ancestry, or our mothers making the same kind of food at home don’t make me feel connected to them. I think that often it’s an easy way to belong to something. Something that requires 0 effort. I’m a quarter Ukrainian, and it’s hilarious to me how many other half or quarter, or 8th Ukrainians who live around me (in California) have screamed it to the world since that shit over there became big news. Social media posts, bumper stickers, and flying flags outside their house that they likely just bought a couple months ago on Amazon. \nMy cousin and I are 1/16th Native American. But reading her social media posts you would think she grew up on the reservation. She tries to convince me to learn the language when it would have zero practical use in my life.", ">\n\nЯкщо мову не розумієш і не говориш, то не українець. Все просто. Американець ти", ">\n\nThis is not an opinion- it’s a hypothesis and not a very good one. Any sociology 101 student could find the holes. People will strongly identify with a culture as long as it meet their social needs. A cult is about an idea or a person whereas any culture is far more than that, even our native language shapes how we think and see the world. Cults adopt superficial versions of a culture or religion but provide none of the social benefits. Saying people who are religious are likely prone to cultdom, fine. But the rest is drivel.", ">\n\na cult has culture. It’s not just ideas but a lifestyle", ">\n\nIt only serves the needs of the leaders at the expense of the followers. A culture evolved over centuries to meet the needs of a people for establishing norms around marriage, family, sport, faith, education, manhood, womanhood. Cults are just about controlling a small group of people to benefit its leaders. It is a con.", ">\n\nno. Cults serve their followers needs as well. Or cults wouldn’t exist", ">\n\nCouple things I’d like to add. 1. It makes a lot of sense to be more attached to your ethnic or cultural identity if you’re part of minority group, for reasons that I think should be pretty obvious. 2. It’s not really a diss to say “these are the type of people who wouldn’t leave a cult if they grew up in one”… yeah most people WOULDNT. Almost all people, including you. We’re heavily formed by our upbringing. YOU have a cultural upbringing that I’m sure you still pretty much adhere to. Most people don’t convert religions, or fully integrate into very foreign cultures as adults for the same reason.", ">\n\nI escaped a cult bro. And almost have little to no culture identity", ">\n\nbut you strongly oppose cults...see how you were formed by your childhood?", ">\n\nEVERYBODY strongly opposes cults\nAnd I never said that people aren’t shaped by their childhood experiences. Of course they are. I’m talking about to an extreme degree tho", ">\n\nmaybe specify that in your post then bc it sounds like you mean literally everyone that feels connected to their culture", ">\n\nI think I understand what you mean and if so I agree. The people who's entire existence is their group identity. It's wonderful to be proud of your heritage, but you didn't choose that. I'd rather know people as individuals.", ">\n\nexactly", ">\n\nbeing too obsessed with oneself’s ethnicity also leads to prejudice towards other people", ">\n\nThis.", ">\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something. \nAnd TBF, I’ve heard interviews with people who help ex-cult members and to hear them describe the process, anyone could fall victim to it if they aren’t diligent and aware.", ">\n\n\nI mean, the word “extreme” almost always denotes an unhealthy degree of something.\n\nAgree with this, if you're from Boston and you have no other personality other than being able to talk about being from Boston, how awesome Boston is, etc this would obviously be a bit annoying and it might benefit that person to explore other areas of interest. However, other than maybe annoying OP I'm kind of confused about the point being made.\nAlso agreed on your second point, it is possible to be in a cult without even knowing it.", ">\n\nThis is such an odd and shallow take. Who cares if people would equally love a different culture if they had been raised in it? That’s as profound as asking a kid “why do you love your mom so much? If you had grown up with a different woman as your mother, you’d love her instead.” So what? That doesn’t and shouldn’t undermine the love you have for your mom, or the enjoyment you have being part of the particular culture you were raised in.", ">\n\nI was always told you should honor and respect your heritage. I don't go super traditional Swedish, but I know where my family comes from", ">\n\nYou said a lot without actually saying very much.\nPeople identify with the chance circumstances they're born into? Of course they do. Is it a problem? Usually not. Does this make them any different to cult members? Nope. Cult members are fundamentally just humans doing what humans do. Find their tribe and finding meaning in their life.\nPeople are allowed to be proud of their country, their ethnicity, what have you. And people are also allowed to love other countries, cultures, and what have you. But if nobody identified with their culture, it were proud of their culture, then all our cultures would just slowly fade out and die as the world gets more modernized, global and interconnected. Frankly, that just sounds boring.", ">\n\nI understand what you mean and I agree. I’m Puerto Rican and I see other Puerto Ricans are obsessed with the fact that they are Puerto Rican and with doing things the Puerto Rican way. Don’t get me wrong, I like being Puerto a Rican, I cook a lot of the foods for my children and my husband (who is not Puerto Rican-he is very White) and like to share things from my culture…but I also taught my kids how to use chopsticks and have served them Indian food. I live in Northern Maine on the Canadian border and tell them they must learn French before they learn Spanish, because they need French more (we have to regularly cross into New Brunswick or Quebec for shopping and errands as there is not much on the American side…also most people here speak both languages). I don’t identify myself by my culture. I identify myself by my faith and what I value, what I think, what I like…my ethnicity is only a small part of me.", ">\n\nI wonder if part of this is more recent “immigrants” (I know they’re a part of the US) being divorced from PR and missing their homeland. My manager is definitely a loud and proud Boricua because she moved from PR only a few years ago. She misses home but she can’t afford to go back", ">\n\nIt brings a sense of community", ">\n\nWhy is being any other than white American is a cult?", ">\n\nHuh? How did you read the post and say this? Where did OP ever say that?", ">\n\nI guess they think that because every place on the planet has sort of a default culture and default traditions. \nDoes OP celebrate Christmas, or Easter, or thanksgiving? Is that bad? Is that overly obsessing with your American culture and roots?\nOur entire lives are shaped by our upbringing, the culture and values we were born into/with. When such culture is the default one in a particular place, then you don't see it as sticking out, but if you're an ethnic minority, it sticks out and then people come up with opinions like this. \nThat being said I doubt OP was trying to be prejudiced in any way.", ">\n\nIt sounds like someone's parents were overly opinionated and they grew up to be like that too. 😂🤷🏾", ">\n\nAnd how do you know these people treat their group identity as their primary?\nHave you had multiple irl conversations with these people or are you basing your perspective off of short social media interactions?\nWhat im saying is, if a black person decides to make a 30 sec post describing pride or need for unity after an event like the George Floyd shooting, do you determine that that is that persons who personality?\nHave you considered the amount of privilege it requires not have to think or worry about your group identity? \nThere are mass shootings that have targeted specific group identities, so shouldn’t it make sense that some people are incredibly aware of their group identity?\nAlso I know plenty of white irish or italian people that act like that, so why single out specifically racial minorities?", ">\n\nYeah this is obviously a “I don’t like people talking passionately about things they care about that I don’t care about” buried under a simple premise. That simple premise might be true to an extent… but probably not the real source of the complaint.", ">\n\n\nWhy do these people have to much pride in their culture?\n\nBecause they like and appreciate the culture that they born into and raised with \n\nWhy do they overly identify with it?\n\nIdk why don't you ask them \n\nThere’s so many cultures and different types of people out there. \n\nAnd? \n\nTheir adult identities are strongly shaped by their childhood experiences\n\nYou have just described every adult on the planet\n\nThese are the same kinds of people who if their parents were Scientologists, they would grow up to be one to.\nIf their parents were Mormons, they would grow up to be one too.\n\nIt's almost like being raised in a specific cultural/religious background will generally cause you to pick up the customs and beliefs of that culture/religion\nMy friend has Muslim parents and I know this may be shocking...\nShe's Muslim", ">\n\nyour last paragraph is exactly my point. Generally, whatever you’re raised as is what you are. So I extrapolated that out to the extreme cases and it makes sense that they would have a WAY higher probability of being what their parents are. Even if it’s continuing in a cult", ">\n\nBy that logic you're pretty much just saying any person born into a cult would likely continue to live in a cult...\nYup totally an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nno I’m not saying ‘likely’. I’m saying super super likely. Meaning like a 99% rate", ">\n\nGot any proof of that\nAnd that's not an unpopular opinion when it basically amounts to \"people born in a specfic cultural background will live their life based on that specific cultural background\". \nAnd cult indoctrination is a well know and well researched social phenomenon that most people are generally/superficially aware of.\nTo be honest your whole post feels more like a rant than an unpopular opinion", ">\n\nThis game of spot the white American was too easy.", ">\n\nwelp you lost then", ">\n\nI think the question should be: why does it bother you? Is it because you don’t have a culture to identify with? Are you jealous? Because personally, I think that people who identify with their culture after years upon years of having that right TAKEN from them, is a very beautiful thing. Poc, especially black people have been fighting for that right since forever, and they ARE still struggling with it. In a world where racism is still very real, don’t you think identifying and having PRIDE in your culture is important?", ">\n\nOps or mine? I’m confused, sorry. 😅", ">\n\nYou sound undercover prejudiced", ">\n\nNot that deep undercover.", ">\n\nIn some cases, it's to prove their bonafides when in fact, they are white washed to the core. This happens a lot with Asian females.", ">\n\nCan I ask what your ethnicity is by any chance?\nI do agree with you to a certain extent but I’d like to know what perspective you are coming from. \nI believe people should see themselves (and others) as individuals first before they any ethnic, cultural or racial identity.\nHowever being in touch with your roots is not the same as being in a cult.", ">\n\nMexican", ">\n\nI see. I’m black and it annoys me when fellow black people celebrate other black peoples achievements. We say stuff like black excellence etc. We bask in each other’s glory, however when black person does something fucked up, then all of a sudden we’re individuals again. And that person is no reflection on the rest of us. \nYou can’t have it both ways. And we wonder why people assume the worst of is based on the actions of a few. Because we compartmentalise ourselves. If we saw ourselves as individuals first, people would follow in kind.", ">\n\nAll cultures do this… not just black people. I personally think it’s good to celebrate the achievements in your community. They worked really hard and deserve the recognition. And of course no one wants to be known for the bad actions of one person. Because a majority of people are not like that and it leads to discrimination. I’m sure Muslims don’t like being labeled “terrorists” just like black people don’t like being labeled “thugs” or Hispanics as “illegal immigrants”. It has a huge negative impact. Black excellence and black girl magic have a positive impact.", ">\n\n\"You believe what you know\"?\nJust as you might think they are ignorant, I believe I share the same view .. just directed towards you. Not that I'm right either, but what you're claiming is without clear examples, evidence or just plain coherence.", ">\n\nWell literally that's human nature. Why do people so strongly believe in their respective religions and decry all others? Cause they grew up arbitrarily believing the religion as their parents taught them", ">\n\nyea that’s basically my post", ">\n\nYeah if you have pride in your familial roots you're in a cult!\n/S" ]