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innovation-hacking2

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shitposting_dataset0

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[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips…." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days." ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days.", ">\n\nPlease tell me I'm not the only one whose mind when to cow tipping when I started to read the title of this post?" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days.", ">\n\nPlease tell me I'm not the only one whose mind when to cow tipping when I started to read the title of this post?", ">\n\nData suggests that if all states eliminated a separate minimum wage for tipped workers, the poverty rate among those workers would decline. I will push back on your claim that tipping culture is \"getting out of hand\"; the FLSA to establish these separate minimum wages was passed in 1966 and hasn't changed since. Where I live in Minnesota, very few businesses require that you add gratuity, but this could be different in other states. The way I see it, the only benefit to tipping is rewarding good service, and the only drawback of not tipping is being seen as rude. The decision has always been with the customer (at a majority of businesses).\nSource" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days.", ">\n\nPlease tell me I'm not the only one whose mind when to cow tipping when I started to read the title of this post?", ">\n\nData suggests that if all states eliminated a separate minimum wage for tipped workers, the poverty rate among those workers would decline. I will push back on your claim that tipping culture is \"getting out of hand\"; the FLSA to establish these separate minimum wages was passed in 1966 and hasn't changed since. Where I live in Minnesota, very few businesses require that you add gratuity, but this could be different in other states. The way I see it, the only benefit to tipping is rewarding good service, and the only drawback of not tipping is being seen as rude. The decision has always been with the customer (at a majority of businesses).\nSource", ">\n\nSales tax not being included either (not to mention online fee) is insane as well. Youre supposed to do the math yourself to figure out that the price of the good will be %25 higher than listed. It's not normal" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days.", ">\n\nPlease tell me I'm not the only one whose mind when to cow tipping when I started to read the title of this post?", ">\n\nData suggests that if all states eliminated a separate minimum wage for tipped workers, the poverty rate among those workers would decline. I will push back on your claim that tipping culture is \"getting out of hand\"; the FLSA to establish these separate minimum wages was passed in 1966 and hasn't changed since. Where I live in Minnesota, very few businesses require that you add gratuity, but this could be different in other states. The way I see it, the only benefit to tipping is rewarding good service, and the only drawback of not tipping is being seen as rude. The decision has always been with the customer (at a majority of businesses).\nSource", ">\n\nSales tax not being included either (not to mention online fee) is insane as well. Youre supposed to do the math yourself to figure out that the price of the good will be %25 higher than listed. It's not normal", ">\n\nIt was my turn to post this week" ]

[ "Still an act of appreciation on my end. Here it's illegal to force mandatory tips or add them to a bill, so I simply do not leave a tip unless the service I'm provided shows it's deserving of one. Why would I give an employee who rolls their eyes, mutters, is inattentive, etc. any extra money? For doing their job poorly?", ">\n\nCommercial law needs to forbid deceptive marketing of fake prices that are less than the real price. Consumers need to push back against deceptive advertising that excludes employee compensation, “resort charges”, and other strategies to advertise falsely low prices.", ">\n\nConsumers also need to stand their ground about what does and doesn't earn a tip. If you bring me something, okay, I'll tip. I don't tip at McDonalds, therefore of course I'm not going to tip at Starbucks or another place where I walk up and you bring me food at the counter. \nIt's also ugly how the register companies use dark patterns to discourage not tipping. (High contrast buttons for tips, background blending on \"skip\" or \"no tip\"", ">\n\nI don't disagree with you at all, but who will start? When my prices are 20% higher than the place across the street that drives customers to my competition. \nIt it was forced and everyone had to do it at once then it would work. But as it is today, any business that tries to go without tipping is at a serious disadvantage to the competition that doesn't and is able to advertise a lower price.", ">\n\nWell if you're expected to tip 20% then the price is the same. \nAlso the other thing nobody seems to want to say is that, at least for large corporations, if the wages were slightly more normalized across the company structure they could pay workers more without increasing costs. CEOs and manager types would have to accept not getting huge bonuses etc, but it's fairer overall and would help stabilize society. And let's face it, I don't care if they can't buy a third home or a yacht", ">\n\nFirst, restaurants and other food service institutions generally make razor thin margins. You don't have CEOs taking massive bonuses.\nSecond, most skilled tipped staff today would oppose getting rid of tips. It's a difficult to job to do well and a skilled waitress or bartender can make bank from tips at a high end place. Getting rid of tips is basically asking them to take a massive pay cut.", ">\n\nThen why does the entire planet do ‘service’ jobs perfectly fine, without tipping culture of USA. But America can’t? \nDon’t give me that shit. \nWe pay our staff a liveable wage, the cost is put on the menu. Stop making lame excuses. The staff still receive decent tips, obviously not as much as USA workers, buts it’s not a necessity and it’s just like a nice bonus at the end of the night/week/month (however your venue chooses to divvy it up). \nYou’ll literally pay the exact same as a customer. It’s just that instead of throwing down 20% tip. That 20% is factored into food costs and the price of meals. It’s basic math. \nEy? The entire world functions just fine. But you guys can’t? Get stuffed, mate.", ">\n\nIt's momentum. You would find it nearly as impossible to switch over to a system like ours, but we do it just fine. People are resistant to change and even when everyone would like to change, the game theory here punishes anyone who tries to be ahead of the curve. So even if most restaurant owners would be happy to switch, they all want to be the last ones to do it. \nAlso, you've got servers in California getting $15 an hour minimum wage + 20% tips on prices that are inflated to cover that $15. These people are making $80k a year (based on your linguistic choices I'm going to assume you're Australian, so this is about $120,000 a year in Digeridollars). They make more than most of the college graduates in this country. Good luck getting them to give that shit up without riots.", ">\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices. Customers pay that as the total cost to go to a restaurant is exactly the same as it was before. So the total money collected by the restaurant is the same as price+tip was in the past. Then it's up to the owner and the staff to divide that. If it's so that the staff is willing to fight (=to go on strike) if the switch would mean a decrease in their income, then the owner has no choice but to pay them wages that equal the old wage + tip. \nThe only thing that would change is that the waiters would not be able to dodge taxes by taking some or all of the tips without paying income tax for that. And that's how it should be. The college graduates that you mention pay taxes for every cent that they earn, so why shouldn't the waiters?", ">\n\n\nWhy would anyone need to give up anything? The restaurants include the service into the menu prices.\n\nThe restaurants that try that go out of business as the skilled servers go to places that do tips and business dries up due to the higher up-front cost.", ">\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more? What up front cost you're talking about? If the tips are included in the prices and then wages paid later, the owners actually keep some of the money for a while that currently goes directly to the waiters as tips.\nAnd in any case what is this magical skill that American waiters possess that nobody else in the world can obtain but instead the restaurants work fine with service included in the prices and the service staff paid higher regular wages?", ">\n\n\nWhy don't they pay the skilled servers more?\n\nHow much more?\nWhat is the actual acceptable hourly wage for servers in the United States if tipping does not exist?", ">\n\nSo much that they get workers. That's how all other industries work. If you don't pay enough, you don't get workers from the labour market.\nI don't know what do you mean by \"acceptable\". I'd imagine that most servers would not accept a decrease of their income when switching from tips to wages. So, the employer could either pay that or lose his workers. Just like it works in all other industries.", ">\n\nI’m a good tipper and I absolutely hate tipping because of how out of hand it has become. Tipping in the drive thru? Tipping the same amount for a to go order as dine in service when I never even got a drink much less a refill - and the total after tax is what’s expected to be tipped on? (When did that change anyway?) I’m over all of it. I wish places would pay a living wage and we could eliminate tipping altogether. I rarely eat out anymore because of how ridiculous it has become.\nEdit: fixed typo “Al” to “all”", ">\n\nJust because they ask for tips doesn’t mean you need to tip. Be confident tipping what you feel is appropriate and sometimes that is nothing. If you enable the behavior it will keep spreading.", ">\n\nI agree with this, and IME most people don't react at all, let alone make a fuss over it. I think a lot of people are afraid of being lectured or some kind of confrontation, which is very unlikely to happen. Kind of like how they say, don't worry about what people think about you because they don't think about you as much as you think they do. Most people want to avoid a confrontation as much as you do.", ">\n\nYeah, having worked a fast food job years ago, before the iPad tipping norm, most of my time spent at the register was spent thinking about what I wanted to do when I got home and how to optimize whatever video game I was playing at the time iirc.", ">\n\n\nAnd let's be honest, it's kinda crazy to feel the need to tip someone who didn't really even provide a service for you, other than what is expected from them in the normal duties of their position.\n\nThis so much. I've been trying to pinpoint what felt wrong to me about the whole thing, and this is it", ">\n\nThe other day I bought a ridiculously overpriced bottle of water at a kiosk inside a bus station. I got a Square prompt for a tip. The article OP is referencing said it would be “miserly” not to tip in that instance. Fuck that.", ">\n\nBut hey, that attendant had to take your card and swipe it! Oh wait... they don't even do that anymore....", ">\n\nSeriously! I don’t even think the guy even looked up from his phone besides to scan the water. Brutal.", ">\n\nMy ex's server friends hated when people would talk about getting rid of tipping in exchange for a higher wage as they work at a Steakhouse and even if they made 30 an hour it would pale in comparison to how much they got in tips from old fat rich dudes.", ">\n\nThis is ultimately why it’ll never change, because servers don’t want it to. Why on earth would they want to get rid of tips in exchange for a consistent wage? They’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \nThey’ll talk about how stressful it can be, and I’m sure it is, but fast food workers work under just as much stress and aren’t payed nearly as much. \nI think minimum wage across the board needs to be upped to reflect cost of living, but that’s a conversation for another time.", ">\n\n\nThey’re making $20-$30/hour for a relatively low skill job that just about anyone can do with little to no training. \n\nAre they making that money because they're skinny pretty women? Otherwise there wouldn't be poverty in USA as anyone can become a waiter and make almost 30 bucks an hour", ">\n\nThey’re making that much because it’s basically taboo to not leave a tip. It doesn’t matter what you look like, or even how good you are. You will get tipped. For every person that doesn’t tip, there’s two more that tip 30% because “they used to be a server.”", ">\n\nI was raised in Mexico, so my views on tipping are different than those of someone born and raised here, but I always thought that tipping was for a \"above and beyond what was reasonably expected\" service or quality of the meal\nNow I feel weird every time I grab a to go order and the screen is asking if i want to tip even though the waiters didn't offer any kind of service and I still don't know if the quality of the meal merits a tip\nI don't mind tipping 20% + for a good meal / service, but I'm definitely not on board for tipping by default, particularly not at 20 %", ">\n\nNope, I’ve seen people argue that you should still tip for bad service because they may just be having a bad day or because they live off of tips. It’s bullshit considering some states mandate a minimum wage for servers separate from tips.", ">\n\nNot some states. All states.", ">\n\nI recently moved from the United States to Europe. \nI expected the standard of service to drop because of the lack of tipping but it really hasn’t. If anything, it’s better. Waitstaff seem more laid back and genuine. Probably because they’re not scrounging for tips. \nHowever, one thing I have noticed is that it’s much harder to be seated at restaurants here. Many of them expect a reservation, many are only open a few hours a day or a few days a week or even a few months out of the year.\nI assume this is because if they don’t know how many customers to expect, they don’t want to pay waitstaff to just sit around doing nothing. \nThis seems to me to be one small advantage of tipping culture in favor of the customer: restaurants are nearly always open in the U.S and are much more flexible to drop ins because the waiters need customers to get paid and the business does not lose many from having people “on the clock”, who are doing very little. \nI could be wrong. Just a pet theory I developed since moving here.", ">\n\nFor what it's worth: I've spent some months throughout different central-European countries and tipping was expected everywhere we went, albeit less than the American expectation (~10%-15%).\nI also disagree, I prefer American service and consider it better. While Europe's service was in general more genuine, I like the politeness, even if slightly histrionic, that comes with American service. They didn't smile very much and I felt bad getting their attention because it seemed like I was inconveniencing them.", ">\n\nIn Europe tipping is for special occasions or tourists. You don't tip at the local restaurant next to your home. You could tip at fancy places but it's fine if you don't. I would expect 30% of people tip at fancier places.", ">\n\nThat's a broad stroke, tipping culture varies between countries.", ">\n\nI don't think any European country have tipping at the non tourist lunch restaurant atleast, happy to change my mind incase you know a location for it.", ">\n\nTips are not expected in most countries. However tips are appreciated of course, in ”normal” places too (and meaning in sit down full service restaurants, not fast casual). A few dollars/euros/pounds is perfectly acceptable, moving to bigger notes (5/10/20$) for exceptional service or large bills for a group. Noone will give you a side eye for not tipping; the tip is just nice pocket change on top of your wages.", ">\n\nI am in Europe and from what I see on USA TV, your tipping culture is unfair on everyone and does not make sense.\nIn my country when we go out for a meal we are not expected to give the server anything extra. For example if I pay with a credit card I'd never add anything extra as I know that it would go to the owner. However many servers are polite and helpful so it is not unusual to leave them some cash. But we only leave something like 5 euros even for a 50 euro meal. \nWe also have men who deliver very heavy things such as gas cylinders and some people give them a small tip - but the tip is usually 50 cents to 1 euro. We do not feel bad about this because we know that these people are well paid.", ">\n\nDon't just say \"Europe\", say your country we're not in the USA here!", ">\n\nIt's pretty much any country in Europe!", ">\n\nI'm 100% certain in Split they took advantage upon realization the guy was an american tourist. \nAs an european, I tip if service was decent, but as the person above said, I leave 5-10 euros in cash max, even for a 100+ euro meal.", ">\n\nWhat I hate about this tipping culture is that people are soooo brainwashed about it that instead of fighting the billionaire corpos to provide them living wages, people are fighting other people who are just like them and demanding that they shoulder that burden. \nIf anyone says \"I don't support tipping culture\", people lose their goddamn shit and call that person all sorts of names! Why don't you realize it's not your customer's duty to provide your salary, it's your employer's. Get angry at the employer, not your fellow pleb citizen. But nope, indoctrination is too deep.", ">\n\nNot many restaurants that have tipped staff are owned by \"billionaire corpos\", it's mostly mom and pop places.", ">\n\nI'm a pretty lonely guy these past couple of years. I'm pretty introverted so I don't need much but sometimes I'll head out to the local diner. I like being a regular, I like that the servers remember me, the cooks. It's not a special occasion but I'll put on a clean shirt and trim my beard, try and look like a human. It's really the only time I walk through a door and see someone's eyes light up, someone happy to see me. I'm not delusional, I know it's not my charming personality, it's that I'm a good reliable tip. But they do give a shit, they make sure my food is right, they get the coffee to the table before I sit down. It's not a lot but it makes me feel special for an hour or so. It feels good to have someone ask how my night's going, and pretend they care about the answer.\nIt's a dumb reason to keep tips, your livelihood shouldn't be based on it. But outside Zoom meetings it's some of the only social interaction I get, sometimes for weeks, and I know they wouldn't give a shit about me otherwise.", ">\n\nIt might not all be the tip. Part of your good service might just be because you’re nice to them. That’s something to look forward to for these industry folk, especially as time moves along, here. People has gotten so mean.", ">\n\nYou're right... I worked at a donut shop and this lady told me she really only comes there because I'm so nice. Sometimes you don't even realize the impact you have on people just by being nice to them and listening to them or whatever. I really would have never had a clue a customer would care about me that much. It was nice to hear tho", ">\n\nWhat a sweetheart she was to say something and how cool of you to get her there. That stuff makes such a huge difference on both ends.", ">\n\nNo sales tax on the tip.\nIf the restaurant were to raise the price of the food enough to eliminate the tip, you'd pay sales tax on that higher amount.", ">\n\nThat's a good point. The easiest solution is to charge x for the food and add 15% service fee. Then the sales tax is only charged to the food bill.", ">\n\nWhy should I have to pay you when your employer should be paying you? Tipping has led to allowing employers to pay subpar wages and get away with it.", ">\n\nI completely agree. It’s way out of hand. Tipping a waiter or waitress for serving me at a sit down restaurant makes sense. Tipping someone for taking my order before I’ve even received my food or drink is absurd. The percentages also seem to go up and up over time. When I was a kid 10% was a good tip, then it went to 15%, then 20%, now 25% is the norm and many places add up to 30% gratuity. It’s insane. \nThere’s actually an easy fix for this. Pay wait staff at least minimum wage like every other job. Large restaurant chains have lobbied for decades to exempt themselves from minimum wage laws and they’ve used the idea that tips provide a lot of the wages as an excuse. They’ve successfully guilted the rest of the population into tipping absurd amounts by underpaying their employees. Larger chains also use these unethical practices to undercut the prices of small restaurants who actually care about their workers and pay them fairly.", ">\n\nWe definitely have to follow the Europeans on this one. Give servers and bartenders a proper wage, then educate the customers to what they are getting, what they are no longer expected to do, and to not be an asshole in the process.\nI worked at Denny's for 9 years. Upon leaving I went to a restaurant that was a step up, think of Applebee's, Red Lobster, etc. This was called Damon's, and it was all grilled & BBQ. \nThere were two dining rooms, one being a traditional dining room, the other was over sized booths all facing in the same direction, arena style, with six big screens up on the wall. And each table had audio controls so they could listen to whatever screen they wanted to. They could get wireless devices for their table to play trivia.\nYou could have the greatest customers, they got very excited and were right there with you. Or you could get the people that come in on Saturday at noon and stay until 9:00 p.m. and have only bought two yards of beer and an onion loaf (pre-blooming onion days) and wanted to leave you two dollars. \nWe were not allowed to cash out our customers, or have another server take them over. So you stayed no matter what, and still only getting server hours. And if your shift was over, you were pulled from the floor still waiting on that table, and you were still only getting $2.17 an hour.\nBetween the two dining rooms was the service station, the window to the bar, and the entrance to the kitchen. The entrance to the traditional dining room and the bar were at the front door. In order to get to the clubhouse you had to walk down a hall to get around the bar which was a considerable size, only to get to the clubhouse which was twice the size of the traditional dining room.\nDuring the week for lunch service because the bar was slow, they would give the bartender to take a section. For whatever reason they always wound up taking all the booths along the wall of the kitchen, which was the furthest thing away. Additionally they had tables and chairs in the bar, so they could have been seated there and had ample viewing of the big screens. \nSo if your customers ordered a drink, you had to wait for the bartender to get around to you, and your customers had to sit and wait until hers in the clubhouse and in the bar were taken care of. And of course then we were expected to tip her out.\nHaving worked every position including as a supervisor at Denny's, I knew which practices were wrong (illegal), and between being autistic, having ADD, and originally being from NYC, know that I do not have a filter. LOL. It goes without saying I was not everybody's favorite server.\nI was scheduled a weekend dinner shift, thankfully in the dining room. We had the head server/supervisor who had close to twice as many tables as everybody else, especially me. And of course everybody was expected to expedite her food, and prebus if they were walking past the tables, and they were set up so you had to walk through her section in order to get to the kitchen.\nAnyway, we have all this nonsense going on, and we're busy. And the busboys are taking their time, you know because they're high schoolers who are only there for a paycheck and to talk about and meet girls. Coming from Denny's I had hustle, so I'm bussing and resetting my own tables so I can make some money. \nWe get to the end of the shift and it's time to tip everybody out, and I only gave them $2. They came at me, demanding to know what my sales were, because they knew that I didn't tip them out enough and besides there was three of them and you can't split $2 between three people. And they all made minimum wage... but I didn't. \nThe manager got called into it, and they're trying to tell me that I'm obligated to tip them out based on my sales regardless of how many they actually bussed. It was one table, a 4 top that when they left only needed to be cleared of glasses, napkins, and my cash tip. So why again was I expected to give two dishwashers and a busboy a chunk of my tips? I don't think so.\nAnd it doesn't help that the public doesn't know or understand that servers are generally required to tip out. I worked at another restaurant of that caliber, if you will, and when the manager would pull the end of shift report, they would calculate how much we \"owed\" the bussers and the bartender, and factor that into how much we were told we had to pay! \nSo you didn't even know half the time, how much they were taking out, how much everybody was getting out of your money. And servers get taxed on all of it, especially nowadays when everything's electronic, there's no way of reporting tips separately most of the time. So if you had a bad night, or they didn't do their job and you were doing it for them, it didn't matter. You're getting taxed on money you didn't earn, AND money that you didn't get to keep. And the dishwashers and busters all make minimum wage at least and do not have to report tips. \nAs if all of that's not bad enough, I went through a Starbucks drive-thru about 15 years ago, and they had a tip jar hanging out the window! I asked them do you receive an hourly wage for what you do? Yes. Is it above or below minimum wage. I was told they made something like $8 an hour. Do you claim tips? \"No, that's why we only get tips in cash.\" Excuse me?!? \nWhen I started waiting tables in 1984 I was making a $1.66 an hour, even though the rest of the table waiting world was getting $2.01 an hour. Somehow Denny's got some loophole back then that they didn't have to pay full minimum wage because they gave us one free meal either before or after our shift, and if we worked long enough to require a break, we would get a free meal then too. (Limited menu of course). Which was great, you'd rarely if ever seen anyone giving out free food now. But there was no opt-out, so if you chose not to eat, your wages weren't adjusted, so they paid us like shit because they could. \nMinimum wage was $3.35, and when I started cooking I made $3.85. 10¢ more than the guy they hired in off the street \"even though I was female\" because I already knew the menu. Boy did that make me feel appreciated... {insert eye roll here} and mind you, at the time, a cup of coffee with 50¢, and a Grand Slam breakfast was $1.99.", ">\n\nnot sure why you are complaining about ur costumer base when you worked at a dennys and applebees I'm pretty sure people who eat there don't go there for an outstanding meal or service and likewise its fair you shouldn't except anything extra out of them, if you wanted to you could always work at a more formal restaurant and make way more money.", ">\n\nYou misunderstood what I wrote. I never complained about the customers, I was speaking about the coworkers, and parts of the industry that the general public doesn't understand.", ">\n\nAhh ur totally right I def misunderstood I apologize, sorry u had to work at a restaurant like that, I suppose I’m privileged in that my managers never have put up with lazy workers like your busboys even if they were teenagers because we had hard working teenagers bussing", ">\n\nIt's all good, and no sweat, that was a hundred years ago. Tbh, the crazy part is that I made more money at Denny's and we were all treated fairly, and the crew looked after o!e another. I took home what I made, without having to share it with other people. And don't get me wrong there were times where we would tip the guys that were coming out and busting tables for us when it was a crazy shift. But it wasn't required or forced on us. When somebody came out busting ass to help turn tables, they were doing it for everybody, and they weren't thinking about the cash they were going to get at the end of the night and which one of the servers tips better and making them their priority. \nIf we eliminate tipping for servers and give them a good wage, that cuts having to tip out other employees who aren't recording the extra income, aren't paying taxes on it, and aren't getting a reduced wage because of it.", ">\n\nI don’t mind tipping out by bussers and other staff tho bc even after tip out I’m leaving with at least 25 n hour", ">\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\nThe alternative being that everyone just stops tipping, but that would mean that the employees would be heavily underpaid (as they already are, but the tips increases this pay).\nI myself live in a country where tipping isn't expected at all, and servers get paid enough which makes the US's tipping culture seem like madness to me, but it's unfortunately a system which is quite difficult to break.", ">\n\n\nTo actually do something about this all food chains need to start paying their employees more. Which unfortuantely is quite unlikely.\n\nIt's unlikely unless the law is changed to make it mandatory. Ensuring all servers are paid at least a livable minimum wage would be something that could be pushed for. If some companies aren't able to survive the wage increases and close as a result, so be it, new companies will spring up in their place.", ">\n\nYeah, that's true. The only realistic way to make sure the employees are paid enough is to enforce some minimum wage.\nThat's about how it works here in Norway, and yeah sure someone gets paid way less than what they are deserved, but they are atleast paid enough to live.", ">\n\nI do agree with it getting out of hand, and it’s coming from a full time server. The only difference with us is that we do pretty much everything, clean tables, answer phones, take our own food, hand out to go orders, make our own drinks, etc. Sill get paid 2.13 hourly. I can’t speak for other servers who have these things done for them, but for example if someone comes in to get a bottle of water or just a drink, I feel so embarrassed to turn the screen around and make them sign where it’s asking for a tip, most times I just press no tip myself and ask them to sign… a lot of times it is changed for what I think is social pressure. What also should be mentioned is that the tips aren’t very reliable, a lot of restaurants get busier at certain times a year, and it’s dead other times. A lot of the money made during busy season should be saved for slower times. Corporate greed is real; they don’t want to pay, and they don’t really care if you tip the server or not.", ">\n\nSaturday I went to a local Italian grocery store to get some specialty ingredients. The screen at the counter asked me if I wanted to leave a 15%, 25%, or 30% tip.\nFor what? Only thing I could think of was they sell sandwiches (which I did get, but out of the cold case.)\nWho am I tipping on my grocery bill?", ">\n\nAnybody living somewhere where you don't have to tip (like where I live) knows that this tipping culture is abusive and disgustingly predatory for anybody involved apart from the owner.", ">\n\nIn Virginia the hourly for a tipped employee is $2.13 or something like that.\nThey have to invoice the employer if their tips don't make it to minimum wage.", ">\n\nYeah I grew up in Michigan and I believe the law there is very similar to this still", ">\n\nHaha I can’t change your view because I agree with you. It’s ridiculous that the “minimum” tip is now 20%. Of course generosity feels great, but I’m a strong believer that the tip should be proportional to the effort of service.\nLousy service gets a 5 or 10% tip and don’t feel the least bit bad about it. Egregiously bad service gets 0% tip.\nBut the opposite is also true. Good baseline service with no issues gets 15%. Amazing service gets 20-25%.", ">\n\nI’m guess I’m pretty much a career bartender at this point, and I agree with you. \nI REALLY appreciate when people tip well and I try to go above and beyond for customers that I like. I have a lot of regulars who hit me with >20% tips frequently, so I feel like they deserve the best service I can offer them when they come in. \nSometimes people don’t require much and they don’t want to open a tab or anything, so I’m really fine with getting ~15% tips on interactions like that. In fact, it makes me appreciate my regulars that much more, which circles back around to the original point of how tips really SHOULD be based on quality of service rather than some standardized expectation.", ">\n\nAgreed. It's time they increased/regulated and revised the federal minimum wage regularly like they do in Europe and many other countries. \nIt's weird how you ask them to cover their noses to keep themselves and their loved ones alive and they'll all take it to the streets to voice against it. But, make their livelihoods depend on alms and gifts of non-employers despite holding full-time jobs, and they comply? For years together? \nSo then what's the difference between the unsolicited window cleaners you find on signals, who then EXPECT money from you, and the waiters in restaurants? I'll go get the food myself then. If you're employed, make the employers pay. If employers don't, UNIONIZE. Go make your politicians do their jobs. instead of licking capitalists' buttholes, they should make employers pay a wage that matches the inflation levels (if not above).", ">\n\nMost tipped staff want to keep it that way, as they make far more money overall. A waiter/waitress covering an extra table makes more money for doing so when tipped, but gets nothing extra of paid a regular hourly rate.", ">\n\nThe basic paradigm is wrong. \"Companies externalizing the cost\" has no functional difference then companies raising prices to the consumer, the cost for a restaurant meal nets out the same. So then you're left with the world as it exists in the US in 2023, the existing restaurant model, with tips, and some either service fee or raised prices restaurant model without tips. \nHaving witnessed the changes in in airline and hotel business in the last 20 years (also both hospitality) consumers will choose 99.99999% of the time the option with the lower up front prices, even if it nets out more expensive in the end. So restaurant A pays workers the bare minimum (and they expect tips) and restaurant B serves the same food that costs 15% more on the menu, restaurant B is going to fold, quickly.", ">\n\nI’ve got a formal education in econ and I disagree. There are behavioral effects from tipping and the owner will continue to set prices for profit maximization which isn’t necessarily a price increase as large as tips were. \nI do agree about the competitive disadvantage for restaurants which don’t tip which also goes to the behavioral economics piece. Hence why I think the problem needs to be resolved through legislation and supply side pressures.", ">\n\nWell shit, I guess your formal education solves it. I guess work to make tipping illegal in the US. I'd chip in $100 on your campaign if it stops these endless whining reddit threads.", ">\n\nWhat is their formal education in Econ? Sounds like someone who took a class or two in college. Most people who have a degree in a thing say that they have a degree, not a formal education.", ">\n\nGlad to hear I’m not “most people”", ">\n\nThe problem is Americans may not be willing to sacrifice the service they are used to getting in order to not tip. For example, when I visited Europe, a single server will be in charge of 15-20 tables easily. They never introduce themselves or say they're pleased to serve you today. They come, get your order, and leave. Free refills aren't a thing so they aren't watching your glass and bringing you drinks constantly. They are less likely to be amenable to changes on the food such as substitutions or additions.\nThis is one of the reasons I, personally, believe restaurants can afford to pay their staff better in other countries, because they have fewer people working and each person is managing more tables. They're able to do this by providing \"worse\" service (really just less attentive). Less attention per table, more tables at once, more food being ordered, fewer people to pay.", ">\n\nAs an American who also has lived in Europe, I feel the opposite. I felt like the service was fantastic in Europe.\n\nServers interact casually & naturally with you\nServers leave you alone to enjoy your meal\nThey aren't trying to upsell you on everything", ">\n\nI 100% prefer the European model. However how will Karen or your average boomer feel?", ">\n\nNot sure! I'm an older millennial myself but also very introverted!", ">\n\nPreachhh", ">\n\nOne of the things that annoy me the most about compulsory tipping cultures is that they allow entrepreneurs outsourcing their risk to below-minimum-wage employees.\nIf in a restaurant where tipping is expected, for some reason no customers show up in a month, the waiters go empty. If the same thing happens in a restaurant where waiters are paid a living wage, the big boss has to take a cut to his profits. The latter seems a lot preferable to me.", ">\n\nTipping shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Companies should be paying everyone a normal wage and if customers want to tip it's because they feel like it not because it's expected or needed of them. It's should be strictly out of generosity if they feel the worker did extra in the role", ">\n\nI went through a fast food drive through yesterday and they had a tip jar.\nI was thoroughly confused...", ">\n\nYep, and the deeper evil is that when they do externalize costs, commercial real estate knows that restaurants can absorb a greater hit to their bottom line and so jack their rents up which in turns raises meal prices which in turn raises tips even more. It’s fucking absurd and has gotten out of control, absolutely. By the time you’re going to swivel your little Square iPad to me and ask me for a tip for counter service? No. Get out. That said, people don’t tip their barbers/stylists nearly enough! So it’s the restaurant industry in particular that sucks, and now I avoid going to sit-down restaurants at all costs except for special occasions or friends in town. Tipping at restaurants is inflationary and regressive for all. Bars that only serve drinks are a totally different story. They don’t expect 20% of whatever you order! That’s closer to how restaurants should (and used to) work.", ">\n\nIs getting out of hand? It became out of hand the moment that it became legal to pay sub minimum wage to service workers because of the tip expectation. While that exists its pretty much impossible morally to just not tip on principle. \nIf you got your food/service then you should tip. Full stop. The percentage is malleable depending on location, but if you are getting a meal in a HCOL area like New York, 20% is very reasonable.", ">\n\nI never tip. I shouldn't be guilted in to subsidizing employee wage while the employer is buying another boat.", ">\n\nYou don't tip after a sit down meal?", ">\n\nNope. I pay the advertised price. They should increase prices and pay employees more.", ">\n\nWell you are pretty worthless. That is clearly not the business model in effect and your silent protest will not change things. \nYou should only eat at the few restaurants that follow the no tipping method, otherwise you need to eat at home. \nManchild.", ">\n\nProtesting always works. Gets people talking and upset at the status quo.\nJust like we see here", ">\n\nHow many restaurants have changed their payment policies to counter the fact that you’re a dick?", ">\n\nWhy do you support slave labor that exploits hard working people? I want servers to make a guaranteed living wage from the capitalists that employ them.", ">\n\nYou support it too. You just don't tip the \"slave\". \nDick move.", ">\n\nYou’re familiar with the history of tipping? It has its roots in slavery and racism. Why would I continue to support something of that nature?", ">\n\nI think we need to realise that, because the tip is a percent, the percent amount doesn't need to change. So really we just need to pick an amount, say 15% for the average tip, 10% for crap service and 20% for great service and leave it at that.\nThat way, as the cost of living goes up so does the dollar amount of the tip.\nE.g. burger costs $10 3 years ago, tip @ 20% = $2\nNow burger costs $15, the tip @ 20% is $3, no need to raise tip percentages as the increase is built in.\nAs for when/who to tip, that's a whole other thing.", ">\n\n\n10% for crap service\n\nYou shouldn't tip anyone anything for a crappy service.", ">\n\nAs much as I agree with it getting a bit out of hand, if it's what works for service workers to get extra money, why change it? Ideally, yes, a company should pay livable wages in the first place, but in the US, that doesn't happen. For restaurant workers, it would benefit them to go the extra mile to hopefully earn 20% tip, whereas if the cost was built into the product, the company would just take in the profit. I personally don't tip at places where all they do is give me the product I'm purchasing, but if others want to, then having that additional way to earn more money does good more than harm in my opinion.", ">\n\nEarning a humiliating base salary is not a \"problem of the world we are living in\", it's specifically an American problem. Most of the rest of the developed countries do exactly that and tipping is TRULLY a bonus", ">\n\nYeah I meant US", ">\n\nI just think the most efficient path for your money to travel is straight from you to the employee. Making a corporation the middle-man between you and the employee and expecting they will only raise prices as much as necessary and that they will pay people well seems immensely naive to me. They’ll jack up prices and keep as much as they can. Sure, that’s not how it is in some other parts of the world but we’d have to change so much more than our culture on tipping for this to work how people want it to work. \nLook at any other “unskilled” (not a judgement of mine just the common term) labor jobs. Companies pay people the bare minimum and charge the maximum they can. That’s the nature of the market. I just think the second we do away with tipping we do away with some of the only living wages that exist for so-called unskilled labor.", ">\n\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers. Which is bullshit.\n\nSo, it doesn't matter why it happened in the first place - what matters now is the result it has produced - and whether or not you're willing to give that up.\nI'm only going to use restaurant servers as the example, as they are the primary tipped occupation.\nE.g. - A server makes $2.15/hr (the fed tipped min). Works a six hour shift, and makes $250 in tips.\nLet's run those numbers really quick.\nThat's $2.15 in hourly compensation - and $41.67 average hourly in tips for a total of $43.82/hour. To make that $250 in tips over six hours, we would expect a minimum of 20% ring - which means the server rang at least $1250 during the shift.\nSo - there are two possible outcomes here if you want to change it.\n\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force employers to pay servers \\~$40/hour. This means your labor cost % is going to skyrocket across your entire meal. We can run those numbers in a minute.\nRemove the tipping altogether - and force restaurant server to work for actual minimum wage. This is the service level you get at your local McDonald's.\n\nWhich one works better than the current system we have now? Honestly. Do you want to take a hit in your service or your bill - because one of them is going to absorb the missing compensation in terms of value. \nRegarding labor costs... the entire restaurant industry operates basically on 30% being your labor cost. E.g., if at any point in the day my labor cost is exceeding 30% of my total cost of running open - I need to cut some employees off the clock. Because labor is only one piece of my expenses - food, utilities, rent, insurance, taxes, etc., all eat into that $5 burger on your table.\nSo - now that you've argued to blow up my labor costs by 181%... how am I going to stay in business at all? You just cut in and way over any profit line that existed. The money has to come out of somewhere else if you're sticking it in somewhere - and restaurants don't have massive profit margins in the first place. So I'm struggling to see how you think this has any sort of practical place.", ">\n\nYour labor costs may increase 181% (I don't really see the two numbers you're comparing but that's fine). But that cost is covered by increasing the price of everything on the menu by 20%, not 181%.\nThe total revenue is the same, the customer pays the same amount total. It's just that all of it goes to the business, and they pay out to the wait staff instead of them getting tips directly.\nIt should all add up to the same amount, no net change in profits. (In reality maybe payroll taxes are a bit higher if it goes through the business, I dunno).\nThe problem would be that 99% of restaurant owners would scoff at actually paying that much to servers directly and not do it, even though they were indirectly paying that much anyway. So they wouldn't pay and servers would go elsewhere. Plus customers would leave for lower perceived cost as well, even though it's not lower.\nSo we wouldn't be able to switch off of the tipping system unless a law was passed so that every single restaurant had to switch at the same time.", ">\n\nI tip because I want to. If I don't want to, I won't lol There's no point in NOT other than not wanting to spend extra money, but for me it's no problem.", ">\n\nThis isn't going to get changed by a bunch of people being cheap.", ">\n\nCMV: this view needs to stop being posted.", ">\n\nIt's a good incentive structure.\nGood waiters who work their ass off. Make more tips. Thus making lazy waiters less likely. \nIt allows the customer to vote with their $ on who the good waiter is. \nIf companies were forced to pay that $. They would just include it in the price of the product. You'd be paying it anyway. But you would remove the incentive for the waiter to be more productive and attentive.\nIncentives are very important in economics. USSR found that out the hard way.", ">\n\nYour point is valid. But my counterpoint to your argument is that tipping culture, at least in the US, has become something so expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not. \nIn addition, a company that pays well/has good benefits is going to attract hard workers and have the ability to let go of people who are lazy etc. Thus giving incentive for hard work without having tips be expected/necessary", ">\n\n\nso expected that an employee's performance often has little to do with whether they get a tip or not.\n\nNo, you're just misunderstanding what the actual tipping structure is incentivizing:\nQuick service. This is in the interests of both the customer and the business.\nAnd it's literally impossible for the number of tips they receive not to depend on this, because it is directly proportional to the number of tables/customers that they serve in a night. \nThe additional, albeit secondary, incentive for the business, which is the main reason you'll never get rid of this, is similarly intrinsic: the more expensive the meal they can sell the customer, the more tips they get.\nExcept for fine-dining... getting your food, check, water, etc., quickly is a misery in countries that don't have tips. It's not guaranteed in the US, but it's directly punished. \nOf course if you prefer to laze around for hours eating your meal (as is traditional in cultures that don't use tipping), you won't like this incentive structure.", ">\n\nCould you not have the exact same incentive by the restaurant paying workers a % of the bill themselves? It would still incentivize quick turn around and upselling.", ">\n\nSure, but that's just identical to non-optional tipping. \nToday it's a balance between workers, business, and customers that's evolved over time...", ">\n\nRight. That's my point. There's no reason the restaurant can't cover the full paycheck outright with similar speed incentives. If all it is is a % of bill, why do I have to do that on my end vs the restaurant just do that on their end? I'm paying for it either way with a higher bill. Now I don't have to have this awkward moment of doing math, feeling pressured, etc.", ">\n\nI think tipping is generally better for both customers and employees. I drive doing delivery for certain apps and absolutely rely on tips. It's been my experience that if they eliminate tipping they aren't going to pay any better and everyone quits. If they force them to pay better then they will simply raise the costs of the service on the customer. When they raise the price they won't raise it by just 15 to 20%. No what they will decide is that they want more money if they have to hire extra employees to take care of paychecks. Which they will have to do. So now the corporation has to pay these employees to account for the extra pay. When they do that they will inevitably raise the price on the customer by like 40% at minimum. That's double what they would ever pay to tip maximum. Then they'll turn around and they'll pay us half of what we are used to getting when customers used to tip.\nTipping is great for workers because it means we'll get paid better ultimately. Now imagine getting a regular hourly paycheck. I game the system with my job. I always get a tip. I don't ever deal with down periods where tipping is low. \nTipping is simply a means for customers to cut out the corporate middle man. When they don't handle your money we make more. It's a win-win and it shocks me how logically most people don't see this because they're blinded by some made up injustice. Fact is, if you can't afford to tip then why are you even spending your money at all on this service? Americans have it figured out with the tipping system because logically it's better for everyone involved.", ">\n\nLol. As much as I feel bad for the service industry, especially FOH folks, it doesn't do you guys any favors of sympathy if you berate customers for \"not affording to tip.\" Why not just pay separately for every ingredient, every equipment, delivery, etc. to keep down costs down? It's not like that because it disrupts convenience. Having to tip kind of feels like I'm paying more money because of that extra step. If they could tip specific workers individually, I'm certain BOH would get a bigger share.", ">\n\nas much i respect BOH staff, its a different skill to cooking meals than to interact with people and explain food to them and to manage them, should BOH make more money probably because in most restaurants yea BOH is prob making about half of servers but I do think it takes more training to be a really good FOH than BOH", ">\n\nNo it's not. The problem is people no longer want to go get their groceries, food or packages. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. The customers use tip baiting as an incentive to pick of their order only to have them remove it. It's rampant. You can't have it both ways.\nThey want them delivered for slave wages the platforms pay the delivery drivers. Tips augment the shitty pay.\nSo before you go on about tips think about this!", ">\n\nI don't think anybody wants to change your view because nobody really disagrees, I'm sure servers and other tipped workers would love to be able to make at least minimum wage, legally. But we tip because they do not get that, and we do not have the power to change it. The restaurants and corporations don't care if the employee gets a tip from us or not, because either way, they still get by paying them less. Strikes have notoriously not worked in this field. So what do we do? We tip the people busting their ass to provide a service to us because they deserve it 99% of the time.", ">\n\nLol, you should go to the servers sub because plenty of them seem actively opposed to legislation ending the tipped wage because they make more with tips than they’d get paid.", ">\n\nI agree with your overall point, but disagree with this:\n\nI believe that the expectation of regular tipping is really just a way for companies/corporations to externalize the costs of paying employees a living wage and putting those costs on the customers.\n\nTipping is a way for servers and bartenders to make more money by taking advantage of social expectations and people's desire to not be seen as a cheap, miserly ass.", ">\n\nI did not work if tips were not good but that was almost 50 years ago when people had more disposable income and cooked. I worked into high end restaurants that appreciated good staff paying a decent wage, making tips what they should be, a gratuity for good service where now it is totally dependent. Expensive places I worked, the house added the tip for parties over 6.", ">\n\nI’ve stopped participating. Gone back to 00’s behavior. I won’t be part of the problem.", ">\n\nThat's an interesting viewpoint. From my experience, good prices aren't much higher in other countries that I've been too where tipping isn't the norm. In fact, in most other countries I've been too food prices tend to be about the same or lower than the US", ">\n\nWhen the price of the product goes up, the tip increases since it's a percentage. Obviously, this doesn't factor in how fast prices are inflating at the place receiving the tip compared to the overall economy. The percentage of the average tip has increased over time. How many years before it's half our cost? Double the cost? Probably quite some time since it was 10% in 1920...according to Emily Post.", ">\n\nPercentage tips are bullshit. I stopped tipping by percentages and started tipping what I think was necessary. If I’m ordering 1 plate and a drink then I’ll tip $2-$5", ">\n\nI use a combination. I think it's important to pay rent, meaning pay for the table. If I sit for an hour and drink coffee, I'm leaving more than a 20% tip. But if the meal is pricey, I go with a percentage.", ">\n\nMy biggest problem with tipping is, greedy corporations keeps getting richer the more tipping becomes too normalized. They have enough money to pay their workers living wage, they choose not to and we glorify and support that by tipping.", ">\n\nIt’s not going to change until people stop tipping", ">\n\nAll they need to do is en mass all the restaurants put up their prices so they can pay a living wage to their staff. The customer pays the extra without having to fuck about working out a tip. Everyone is happy nothing has really changed except the employer is now (correctly) responsible for paying a proper wage.", ">\n\nI hate tipping. Wait staff ought to be paid fairly by the restaurant, and leaving a $2 or $5 tip should be optional as a thank you for exceptional service, not because we know the employee needs the extra money to make rent. It's a broken system.", ">\n\nWhat the hell is this? Not a single comment is trying to change this view. I feel like I'm in the wrong sub here.", ">\n\nHaha I know, I was expecting some more solid arguments for it but it seems everyone just agrees with me.", ">\n\nI cant disagree but also when people who works jobs that make tips get the proper pay they deserve then I'll stop tipping. I know waiters and waitresses make less in general because of tipping", ">\n\nThe issues is with tipping, restaurants in some places are legally able to play the employees less. Do you really think the major chains are going to just pay people a reasonable rate?", ">\n\nDon't tip in view of the boss", ">\n\nCan't change this view because I agree with it", ">\n\nI don't tip, I refuse to participate in the flawed system", ">\n\nI'm vehemently against tipping culture. I've never heard a good argument for USA's \"expected\" tipping culture despite this being a repeated topic of contention.", ">\n\nIn my gratuity is included. I don’t tip. It’s the highest minimum wage state age in the country. Sorry I don’t care unless your service is crazy good.", ">\n\nTipping is out of control these days. Most places it's like 20% to 40% of the meal. It's unbelievable.", ">\n\nMy first trip to the USA in 2001 i was 18; went to a restaurant and FIL left tip: waiter chewed us out loudly for not tipping enough. This happened in Connecticut in a reasonably wealthy area. It was so embarrassing. Really put me off eating out there. Just pay your staff a decent wage!?\nTips are a bonus not a staple.", ">\n\nI tip only when I get good service. Mandatory tips are illegal here and I'm not required to pay them no matter how much the restaurant may try to argue. Pay your employees a decent wage, don't expect me to cover your cheap ass.", ">\n\n15% is minimum, 18% is average and 20% is for good service. More than that is charity. \nIt would make sense for tips to go up if the prices stayed the same, but they do not. Tips are already inflation adjusted.", ">\n\nTipping avoids taxes, so thats nice. Maybe taxes should generally be lower", ">\n\nTipping is trash, in China it doesn't exist", ">\n\nI don't think enough people would stop tipping. \nPersonally, I would not stop tipping if I know the industry is not paying them enough to survive. \nI do, however, think that if people boycotted going to restaurants where people relied on tips something may come of that - assuming it was made clear and it hurt their business by cutting into the profit they'd still make if we went out and simply didn't tip.", ">\n\nTipping", ">\n\nTipping was originally a way to avoid paying Black people after the Civil War.", ">\n\nCompletely agree, offloading costs on the customers is just extremely stupid. If you business cannot survive by paying a living wage it shouldn’t. It’s really that simple.", ">\n\nI’m not here to Change OPs mind. I’m here to point out that a lot of restaurants also have an included gratuity that servers are already getting a guaranteed tip from. My girlfriends sister makes well over a couple hundred every night in her gratuity tips….", ">\n\nI would agree . My wife was a waitress for waffle house in Atlanta for a few years in the early 90s . She was paid a pitiful $2.13 an hour so tips were what she looked to to make any kind of real money . At least a hundred per shift . all in 1s and maybe some 5s . butthen she informed me that her tips are taken and divided up between others like the cook or dishwasher. So now our youngest daughter lives and works in Vegas as you guessed it a server . i guess waitress is no longer pc . but she is making substantial money compared to what her mom did at waffle house . she works at a high end eatery that is frequented by some well to do guests. So she seems happy. but for awhile before she found this well paying gig she did struggle at a place on the strip that had her scraping by.it was something she thought she would do well at but for the existing employees that had become lazy or complicit with their job there and she was hustling and was making the others look like garbage workers and it became an issue for her because she was having to share her tips with them for hardly doing any work.", ">\n\nSo I don't disagree that the fact that some industries heavily rely on tipping is problematic. \nI believe that the fact that the companies aren't footing a living wage directly is, as you say, bullshit. I agree that in an ideal world, a tip should be for \"above and beyond normal service.\"\nWith that said: should tipping be discouraged? \nI would strongly argue no. \nBecause of the fact that currently employees in the respective industries only experience a living wage with high tip levels, therefore, starting with the issue from the customer side is just reducing employee earnings to below living wage levels.\nThe problem needs to be tackled from the employment side first (i.e. raising wages), before the tipping issue can be solved. It can even be done simultaneously, wherein a restaurant could raise prices and then implement a policy of not accepting tips at the same time.", ">\n\n\nSo it's my view that the tipping culture in the US needs to be somehow systematically reined in\n\nThat \"somehow\" is doing a whole lotta work there, friend. Can you explain HOW you think it should be discouraged?", ">\n\nI'm not tipping $20 on $100. Bill. That's a quick putting down of two plates of food these days.", ">\n\nPlease tell me I'm not the only one whose mind when to cow tipping when I started to read the title of this post?", ">\n\nData suggests that if all states eliminated a separate minimum wage for tipped workers, the poverty rate among those workers would decline. I will push back on your claim that tipping culture is \"getting out of hand\"; the FLSA to establish these separate minimum wages was passed in 1966 and hasn't changed since. Where I live in Minnesota, very few businesses require that you add gratuity, but this could be different in other states. The way I see it, the only benefit to tipping is rewarding good service, and the only drawback of not tipping is being seen as rude. The decision has always been with the customer (at a majority of businesses).\nSource", ">\n\nSales tax not being included either (not to mention online fee) is insane as well. Youre supposed to do the math yourself to figure out that the price of the good will be %25 higher than listed. It's not normal", ">\n\nIt was my turn to post this week", ">\n\nPrices are so damn high for things now that I can't afford to add 20% on to things. I just can't. I'm tired of subsidizing shitty business owners who won't pay a reasonable wage and tipping for simple things like someone handing me food a cook in the back made. SO many countries don't expect or rely on tips at all or only take them in cases of exceptional service or quality. I hate getting a guilt trips for not paying so much extra that I simply never go out to eat anymore." ]

[]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nI am really interested in trying one of these sometime. Thanks for posting your pics; looks great." ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nI am really interested in trying one of these sometime. Thanks for posting your pics; looks great.", ">\n\nVery nice! I love my Quefrency.\nDid you print the case yourself?" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nI am really interested in trying one of these sometime. Thanks for posting your pics; looks great.", ">\n\nVery nice! I love my Quefrency.\nDid you print the case yourself?", ">\n\nNo I got it from Tree Dog Studio, awesome quality!" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nI am really interested in trying one of these sometime. Thanks for posting your pics; looks great.", ">\n\nVery nice! I love my Quefrency.\nDid you print the case yourself?", ">\n\nNo I got it from Tree Dog Studio, awesome quality!", ">\n\nWhere is the case from?" ]

[ "Quefrency Rev.5\n· CannonCaps Earl Grey Lavender Keycaps\n· Gazzew Bobagum Linear Switches\n· O-Ring mod for a quieter feel\nShe gets the job done!", ">\n\nVery cool!", ">\n\nThank you!", ">\n\nI am really interested in trying one of these sometime. Thanks for posting your pics; looks great.", ">\n\nVery nice! I love my Quefrency.\nDid you print the case yourself?", ">\n\nNo I got it from Tree Dog Studio, awesome quality!", ">\n\nWhere is the case from?", ">\n\nCase is from Tree Dog Studio, they're suggested in Quefrency's page." ]

[]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still.." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting..." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything", ">\n\nI don’t want to hear about what “could” happen. Stop. When justice for trump IS happening, when he’s being led away in handcuffs, kicking and screaming, by burly men in black suits as he soils himself on national TV you can hype this story. I don’t want to hear about what “could”, “might”, “potentially”, “possibly” happen. Just stop" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything", ">\n\nI don’t want to hear about what “could” happen. Stop. When justice for trump IS happening, when he’s being led away in handcuffs, kicking and screaming, by burly men in black suits as he soils himself on national TV you can hype this story. I don’t want to hear about what “could”, “might”, “potentially”, “possibly” happen. Just stop", ">\n\nPatience…" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything", ">\n\nI don’t want to hear about what “could” happen. Stop. When justice for trump IS happening, when he’s being led away in handcuffs, kicking and screaming, by burly men in black suits as he soils himself on national TV you can hype this story. I don’t want to hear about what “could”, “might”, “potentially”, “possibly” happen. Just stop", ">\n\nPatience…", ">\n\nWill Trump be incarcerated and not able to keep yapping while awaiting trial? If no then I do not care." ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything", ">\n\nI don’t want to hear about what “could” happen. Stop. When justice for trump IS happening, when he’s being led away in handcuffs, kicking and screaming, by burly men in black suits as he soils himself on national TV you can hype this story. I don’t want to hear about what “could”, “might”, “potentially”, “possibly” happen. Just stop", ">\n\nPatience…", ">\n\nWill Trump be incarcerated and not able to keep yapping while awaiting trial? If no then I do not care.", ">\n\nWhat charges?" ]

[ "A few facts to help people who are unaware of why the charges in Georgia are so important, because these questions always come up.\n\nThe Governor of Georgia has no Constitutional power to pardon or provide any clemency to Trump and his cronies.\nThe Attorney General of Georgia has no Constitutional power to step in and stop or take over a county prosecution.\nThe RICO laws of Georgia are the most aggressive and prosecutor friendly in the nation.\nDA Fani Willis is a veteran of prosecuting public corruption racketeering cases.\nWe currently do not know if there is a criminal grand jury empaneled (because they are secret), but rumors are that one has been.\nA change of venue is highly unlikely to be granted because of the political leaning of the population of Fulton county where this case would be prosecuted.\nCounty DAs cannot be removed by the AG, there is a judicial process to disqualify a prosecutor from a case but DAs are elected officials, and home rule is enshrined in the state constitution.\n\nEDIT added an answer to another question.", ">\n\nMost importantly… some republicans actually want him gone.", ">\n\nYeah. As awesome as this case is, Trump is not the #1 top dog anymore. If he goes, there's already a replacement waiting.", ">\n\nKanye West? /s", ">\n\nC'mon bro, no.\nJeb!", ">\n\nHow is it even possible that Trump is in like dozens of simultaneous lawsuits and federal investigations, ranging from simple wire-fraud and money laundering to outright treason, without it impacting his personal freedom even in the slightest?\nAny normal human would have been financially ruined for all eternity and disappeared to a small unheated wooden shack on Attu Island in the Aleutians to fend for themselves.\nInstead Coupthulhu is out and about on the campaign trail, continuing to peddle the same shit he's been peddling since the 70s.", ">\n\nCoupthulu is both brilliant and the first new nickname for that pos that I've seen in years. Bravo!", ">\n\nI can't take the credit for that one. It was one of the at least 400 listed on Colbert so that he wouldn't have to say his name. I guess they culled that from Twitter or something.\nBut yeah, it's the best one by miles.", ">\n\nWell, it was refreshing to see a new one after these last few lifetimes.", ">\n\nThese, “He gets us.” ads can’t go away soon enough.", ">\n\nApparently funded by some shady right wing group, I know that’s not a huge surprise, but still..", ">\n\naka Hobby Lobby.", ">\n\nUgh", ">\n\nThank you", ">\n\nSure, the fed case is so big that it's going to take another 5 years to put him behind bars. sigh", ">\n\nYeah let’s wait until he’s actually charged in GA, then we can discuss the implications for a federal case", ">\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif", ">\n\n\nMichaelScottThankYou.gif\n\nfound these versions of your gif\n1\n2\n3\n​\nMe not bot, just lots of free time and felt like looking, of course there are more gifs that fit but it would qualify as unpaid work after the first 3", ">\n\nSounds like something a bit would say", ">\n\nbit cannot say anything without the rest of them", ">\n\nLucy has the football again.", ">\n\nMueller-ed once again.", ">\n\nCould - should - would... Wake me up when he actually finally sees repurcussions for his actions\nEdit: fixed a spelling mistake", ">\n\nVery original comment that adds a lot to the discussion, thank you.", ">\n\nWe have been hearing that charges against Trump are imminent for years. I no longer believe charges will ever be laid.", ">\n\nOr, more likely, nothing will happen and tubby the traitor will happily make tee times from now till whenever.", ">\n\nHint: They won't. Nothing will ever, ever, ever happen to punish Donald Trump.", ">\n\nStill waiting...", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nBelieve it when I see it.", ">\n\nOh, how I long for a headline about this stuff without the words might, could or may.", ">\n\nWe all heard him beg them to “ find “ votes. He should have been charged the second he left office and disbarred from ever holding any sort of political office or government appointment ever.", ">\n\nHow about we wait until charges are actually filed before we decide what the next charges after that could be?\nI’ve been hearing for 2+ years that charges are coming. And, disappointingly, they never have. I’m not really holding my breath here either.", ">\n\nYes, please! More of that!!!", ">\n\nCould, can, should..\nWake me up if anything actually happens", ">\n\nUh-huh. Sure it could. I believe this and don’t think that the wealthy and powerful protect their own at all. There is definitely a valid and honest legal system in the US and isn’t at all a sham.", ">\n\ncoulda, woulda, shoulda\nI will never subscribe to a news media site as long as they continue to post \"what might happen\" pieces as news.", ">\n\nSick if these headlines that go nowhere. Years of this.", ">\n\nWhen? When? When???", ">\n\nSo nothing.", ">\n\nCould.", ">\n\nNothing of consequence ever happens to Trump, legally speaking. He’s proven to be above the law and all these charades are just a waste of ressources at this point. I think I’m not the only person who has stopped falling for these headlines… Trump’s been in legal hot water his whole life, he never faces consequences for his crimes, please stop pretending he might. I would love to be proven wrong, of course.", ">\n\nHmm, it is 2023. I am just wondering if we plan on charging after he dies or not? Until something happens, these articles are just worthless.", ">\n\nWe will be hearing about this for the next 10 years and nothing will happen. What a fucking joke the judicial system is in America. I’m so sick of reading about this.", ">\n\nWhat the fuck do they mean \"could\"? Why is this guy continuing to get off the hook?", ">\n\n“could”", ">\n\nSo tired of the woulda couda for the past couple of years. Just fuckin charge him.", ">\n\nCall me back when there are actual charges for ANYTHING this living shit bag has done.", ">\n\nI feel like Garland is hoping one of these state investigations turns into indictments so he doesn't have to do anything.", ">\n\nBut they won’t because nobody has the courage to actually charge this asshole with anything", ">\n\nI don’t want to hear about what “could” happen. Stop. When justice for trump IS happening, when he’s being led away in handcuffs, kicking and screaming, by burly men in black suits as he soils himself on national TV you can hype this story. I don’t want to hear about what “could”, “might”, “potentially”, “possibly” happen. Just stop", ">\n\nPatience…", ">\n\nWill Trump be incarcerated and not able to keep yapping while awaiting trial? If no then I do not care.", ">\n\nWhat charges?", ">\n\nI’m tired of reading about what May happen and it may happen soon. How about some action." ]

[]

[ "(CNN) — The American military had a “domain awareness gap” that allowed three other suspected Chinese spy balloons to transit the continental United States undetected under the Trump administration, the Pentagon general responsible for providing air and missile defense over North America said on Monday.\n“Every day as a NORAD commander, it’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those threats,” Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of US Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command said when asked about the three other balloons.\n“And that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out, but I don’t want to go into further detail.”\nVanHerck added that the intelligence community after the fact was able to gather intelligence “from additional means that made us aware of those balloons that were previously approaching North America or transited North America.”\nA senior administration official told CNN on Sunday that the intelligence community is prepared to offer briefings to key Trump administration officials about the Chinese surveillance program, which the Biden administration believes has been deployed in countries across five continents over the last several years.\nTrump administration officials have insisted that they were not aware of any balloons transiting the US while Trump was in office.\nAfter the Biden administration disclosed last week that a suspected Chinese spy balloon was hovering over Montana, the Pentagon said that similar balloon incidents had occurred during the Trump administration. In response, former Trump administration Defense Secretary Mark Esper told CNN on Friday that he was “surprised” by that statement.\n“I don’t ever recall somebody coming into my office or reading anything that the Chinese had a surveillance balloon above the United States,” he said.\nFormer President Donald Trump also said on Truth Social this week that reports of Chinese balloons transiting the US during his administration were “fake disinformation.”\nThe latest balloon that hovered over Montana was detected early enough to allow the US to gather intelligence on it while it transited the US before it was shot down, VanHerck said.\n“There was a potential opportunity for us to collect intel where we had gaps on prior balloons,” he said. “And so I would defer to the intel community. But this gave us the opportunity to assess what they were actually doing, what kind of capabilities existed on the balloon, what kind of transmission capabilities existed, and I think you’ll see in the future that that timeframe was well worth its value to collect over.”" ]

[ "(CNN) — The American military had a “domain awareness gap” that allowed three other suspected Chinese spy balloons to transit the continental United States undetected under the Trump administration, the Pentagon general responsible for providing air and missile defense over North America said on Monday.\n“Every day as a NORAD commander, it’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those threats,” Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of US Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command said when asked about the three other balloons.\n“And that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out, but I don’t want to go into further detail.”\nVanHerck added that the intelligence community after the fact was able to gather intelligence “from additional means that made us aware of those balloons that were previously approaching North America or transited North America.”\nA senior administration official told CNN on Sunday that the intelligence community is prepared to offer briefings to key Trump administration officials about the Chinese surveillance program, which the Biden administration believes has been deployed in countries across five continents over the last several years.\nTrump administration officials have insisted that they were not aware of any balloons transiting the US while Trump was in office.\nAfter the Biden administration disclosed last week that a suspected Chinese spy balloon was hovering over Montana, the Pentagon said that similar balloon incidents had occurred during the Trump administration. In response, former Trump administration Defense Secretary Mark Esper told CNN on Friday that he was “surprised” by that statement.\n“I don’t ever recall somebody coming into my office or reading anything that the Chinese had a surveillance balloon above the United States,” he said.\nFormer President Donald Trump also said on Truth Social this week that reports of Chinese balloons transiting the US during his administration were “fake disinformation.”\nThe latest balloon that hovered over Montana was detected early enough to allow the US to gather intelligence on it while it transited the US before it was shot down, VanHerck said.\n“There was a potential opportunity for us to collect intel where we had gaps on prior balloons,” he said. “And so I would defer to the intel community. But this gave us the opportunity to assess what they were actually doing, what kind of capabilities existed on the balloon, what kind of transmission capabilities existed, and I think you’ll see in the future that that timeframe was well worth its value to collect over.”", ">\n\nFake disinformation? So actually truthful information?" ]

[ "(CNN) — The American military had a “domain awareness gap” that allowed three other suspected Chinese spy balloons to transit the continental United States undetected under the Trump administration, the Pentagon general responsible for providing air and missile defense over North America said on Monday.\n“Every day as a NORAD commander, it’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those threats,” Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of US Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command said when asked about the three other balloons.\n“And that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out, but I don’t want to go into further detail.”\nVanHerck added that the intelligence community after the fact was able to gather intelligence “from additional means that made us aware of those balloons that were previously approaching North America or transited North America.”\nA senior administration official told CNN on Sunday that the intelligence community is prepared to offer briefings to key Trump administration officials about the Chinese surveillance program, which the Biden administration believes has been deployed in countries across five continents over the last several years.\nTrump administration officials have insisted that they were not aware of any balloons transiting the US while Trump was in office.\nAfter the Biden administration disclosed last week that a suspected Chinese spy balloon was hovering over Montana, the Pentagon said that similar balloon incidents had occurred during the Trump administration. In response, former Trump administration Defense Secretary Mark Esper told CNN on Friday that he was “surprised” by that statement.\n“I don’t ever recall somebody coming into my office or reading anything that the Chinese had a surveillance balloon above the United States,” he said.\nFormer President Donald Trump also said on Truth Social this week that reports of Chinese balloons transiting the US during his administration were “fake disinformation.”\nThe latest balloon that hovered over Montana was detected early enough to allow the US to gather intelligence on it while it transited the US before it was shot down, VanHerck said.\n“There was a potential opportunity for us to collect intel where we had gaps on prior balloons,” he said. “And so I would defer to the intel community. But this gave us the opportunity to assess what they were actually doing, what kind of capabilities existed on the balloon, what kind of transmission capabilities existed, and I think you’ll see in the future that that timeframe was well worth its value to collect over.”", ">\n\nFake disinformation? So actually truthful information?", ">\n\nHe has the best words." ]